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The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

charliechaplin.com

61–70 of 412 posts

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t think of a single fact on its own that presents any danger. If anything, facts through the lens of ideology may become dangerous, but data on its own is like technology. Neutral without application, good or evil depending on situation.

Hypothetically if the world's scientists were to all prove that blacks were inferior to whites, what good would come out of that? I can't think of a single good thing that would come from that- the world would be worse for knowing such a fact.

Does “inferior” mean statistically less likely to be good at logic games? Because I don’t believe people’s claim to humanity is defined by that.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#62

I find it ironic that "We think too much and feel to little" appears to contradict the conclusion at the end "Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science and progress will lead to all men’s happiness."

I disagree. Science would suggest that separating a human from their emotions (like via emotional suppression) is illogical — a one-way ticket to mental health disorder. Thus, to obey reason, one must feel enough (and regulate vs suppress those feelings).

Paying attention to our feelings is probably how we become more 'logical'.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#63
For making this speech, and the anti-fascist film in which it takes place, Charlie Chaplain was surveilled and persecuted by the US government (FBI, CIA, HUAC, and more). He was effectively exiled out of the country that had been his home for decades by the time this film came out in 1940.

In this speech he mentions 'a system' that generates war. That was enough for him to be branded a communist, hounded, smeared, and exiled.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#64
post #43

This film is currently streaming on the “max” platform. I watched it a few days ago. It was quite controversial at the time it came out. Obviously you should not torrent a copy of this 85 year old film as that would further diminish any incentive Chaplin might have to make any more films.

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Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#66
post #60
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eugenics and Phrenology were very relevant at the time and used as a scientific basis to justify many attrocities. It's important to remember that science evolves, and what we "know" to be part of scientific knowledge today might be debunked in the future. Specially with the state of peer review in the social sciences my feeling is many things that are said to be scientific fact today will be proven wrong later, incl…

Pseudoscience like eugenics is just feelings packaged as science.

Well yes, and that is obvious today, at the time they were reputable fields, just look it up.

And if you read that in history, what does that tell you about the present and the possibility of it being the case with some fields today?

My point is obviously not to defend those fields, but to say that pseudoscience maskerading as science isn't a thing that can only happen in the past.

It's a bit strange to learn about the fact that it happened before yet not accept the possibility that some of the things we call science today, aren't.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Science would suggest that separating a human from their emotions (like via emotional suppression) is illogical — a one-way ticket to mental health disorder. Thus, to obey reason, one must feel enough (and regulate vs suppress those feelings).

On the other hand, following the teachings of Surak, which you effectively reference here, would be seen as highly logical by some. Though perhaps hard to practice by humans.

I would say that's a straw vulcan. Emotion are data and drivers of our actions.

A Vulcan would not say "emotions are illogical." They would say "What does this emotion says and does it make sense in this situation?" Or "how would I feel more appropriately for this situation?". Or "this emotion doesn't make sense for this situation."

Sometime, it's more appropriate for us to rely on intuition and instinct and it would be more rational for us to do that instead. Imagine someone's about to be hit by a car. You have only seconds to move them out of the way. You don't have time to ponder so you just do it.

Thinking and logic is a general problem solving tool that's very useful in certain context, but they are very slow to use. By itself it is not a complete toolkit for dealing with emotional issues. Can't exactly make yourself less angry using just logic alone. You need some emotional tools to dial down counterproductive emotions.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#69
post #22

I know a lot of people here are missing the mark - the issue here is EMPATHY not -feelings-. "We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each other’s happiness - not by each other’s misery. We don’t want to hate and despise one another. " "We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness." Please take…

Maybe if so many people are "missing the mark" it is because of poorly chosen words?

It is important when writing such a long speech to keep in mind that at best 1 or 2 sentences, slogans, et will be remembered or used as extra short summary of the essence of the speech. If the idea was empathy and not feeling then that's the word that should have been used.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#70
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nazi Germany thought their way to the holocaust. That's bullshit though. You don't think your way to holocaust, you hate and greed and fear your way to it. Those are all feelings. Even indifference to the violence and death of others is a feeling - or at least fear-driven emotional defense mechanism. The Nazis weren't "machine men, with machine minds and machine hearts", no matter how much it nicely riffs off machi…

Eugenics and Phrenology were very relevant at the time and used as a scientific basis to justify many attrocities. It's important to remember that science evolves, and what we "know" to be part of scientific knowledge today might be debunked in the future. Specially with the state of peer review in the social sciences my feeling is many things that are said to be scientific fact today will be proven wrong later, incl…

> used as a scientific basis to justify many attrocities

That's the operating phrase though. Throughout history, atrocities were justified using whatever was seen as the higher authority at the moment - the will of a deity, the words of a prophet, the decree of a king, appeal to destiny or legacy, and yes, science too. Especially in the early XX century, when science was kicking into gear, and delivering miracles left and right for everyone to see - it was easy tool to abuse to justify whatever the leaders wanted or needed to.

Doesn't mean the science itself is at fault here.

I didn't read up much on phrenology so I won't comment on it, but RE eugenics, I see it as a mix of good and bad ideas that sprouted in an environment full of aforementioned hatred and otherwise devoid of moral and ethical boundaries[0]. I feel it's more of a historical coincidence of fledging science and then-contemporary zeitgeist, rather than an innate feature of science. The resulting effect is that even the word itself - eugenics - casts a long shadow on research in fields like genetics, medicine and economics. There are whole subsections of those fields you can't discuss in polite company, 'lest someone rounds your thinking off to "eugenics" and therefore paint you as "nazi". This is a bad outcome.

> Easier to trust more fundamental aspects of math and physics, but even in those fields, on the bleeding edge many things can change.

That's true. There's this thing though. I can't put my finger on it, so it might be just a benefit of hindsight, but there's a notably different feeling when you reason from current state of knowledge in a correct way, vs. when you abuse it to justify whatever self-serving or atrocious idea you want. The atrocities committed under the label "eugenics" feel very much like the latter. But again, this may be just hindsight, and we may all be vulnerable to a new flavor of that mistake today.

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[0] - Notably, some of which were developed only after those events. E.g. the Nazis weren't the only ones willing to do brutal, lethal scientific experiments on POWs, and, to my understanding, the consensus and principle to not do that was achieved in response to the atrocities of WWII.

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