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Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

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Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#91

Post by throwawaysugar »

askonomm wrote: post #89
xoac wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wtf I just install Firefox and literally don't even register that Edge exists. Have used 11 since the beta. People make this into some very big issue while ignoring that the only real monopoly in this space is Google.

How do you install Firefox without using Edge? By default there is no other browser on Windows, and presumably you need a browser to visit firefox.com, no? Or you carry Firefox installer around on a USB with you?

Winkey+R and then

    powershell -Command "& {Invoke-WebRequest -Uri 'https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-latest&os=win64&lang=en-US' -OutFile 'Firefox.exe'}"
Not saying it's ergonomic but since you asked ;-)

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#92

Post by askonomm »

throwawaysugar wrote: post #91
askonomm wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you install Firefox without using Edge? By default there is no other browser on Windows, and presumably you need a browser to visit firefox.com, no? Or you carry Firefox installer around on a USB with you?

Winkey+R and then powershell -Command "& {Invoke-WebRequest -Uri 'https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-latest&os=win64&lang=en-US' -OutFile 'Firefox.exe'}" Not saying it's ergonomic but since you asked ;-)

I mean ... I guess this works.

Edit: Actually now that I think about it I'm saving this to avoid using Edge myself in the future. Thank you!

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#93

Post by greiskul »

mattkevan wrote: post #39
isodev wrote: post #23

I loved those screenshots from my youth, but my smile quickly faded when each of the "bad stuff" Microsoft used to do back then are currently embedded into every aspect of our digital landscape by ... Google, of course! Look at them covering all their bases and making sure anything that isn't Chrome doesn't feel up to task ... or just simply making sure that one way or another, you end up seeing their ads.

My pet theory is that all the people responsible for the things Microsoft did in the 1990s and 2000s moved to Google. Hence Chrome being the new IE, dreadful product names and endless product churn and rebranding. Google must have gone through at least as many chat apps as Microsoft went through media stores. Google Talk, Chat, Messages, Duet, Allo, Hangouts, Meet, Meet (original) vs. Microsoft PlaysForSure, Zune, Me…

How is Chrome the new IE? Safari is the new IE. If you disagree, please make a better browser for iOS. Oh wait you literally are not allowed to.

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#94

Post by RunSet »

Dalewyn wrote: post #56
askonomm wrote: post #52

It's so much worse now. Ever tried installing a different browser on Win11 now? Edge tries to dark pattern all your info with 10 sneaky popups when you first open it. Then on Chrome's website Edge will show a popup indicating that Edge is better, and you should use Edge instead. Then setting Chrome to be default is also a pain, as you have to do that manually for each file type and protocol now.

>Ever tried installing a different browser on Win11 now? Yes. Running Windows 11, I use Chromium for my daily usage and Pale Moon for specific tasks, along with Edge for things I want to cordon in another browser altogether. Windows 11 hasn't given me grief in my so far ~1.5 years of daily driving it, and I don't necessarily hold Edge's nagging against it since it's browsers catfighting each other. Chrome and Firefox…

> I will note that I have Windows Update completely blocked and disabled via Group Policy, which means my system settings never get reset under the guise of "updates" every month unlike most people's setups.

Better to use a long term servicing channel (LTSC) than disable Windows Update entirely.

The LTSC versions of Windows only get security updates, not feature updates.

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#95

Post by greiskul »

JimDabell wrote: post #60
Dah00n wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a case for arguing Safari is the new IE.

The defining aspect of Internet Explorer’s impact on the WWW is that, once Microsoft killed Netscape and Internet Explorer 6 gained >95% market share, they shut down development for five years. When Firefox started to become popular, they restarted development. That’s more than five incredibly long years where front-end web development was dragged down to an absolute standstill by Microsoft. Even the subsequent Inter…

Safari has all of the iOS users locked to it in a level that not even a campaign to get users to switch browsers would liberate them, cause you are literally not allowed to make a competing browser in iOS.

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#96

Post by RunSet »

tinus_hn wrote: post #58
drooopy wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helping accelerate the death of Flash was probably Steve Jobs' most important contribution to computing. That said, it's appalling that Apple is getting away with banning 3rd party browser engines on iOS.

Then again, iOS is a better OS because it can get away with supporting no third party browser engines.

Then again, Firefox is worse on iOS because Apple can get away with banning third party browser engines.

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#98

Post by greiskul »

Sharlin wrote: post #47
Dah00n wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a case for arguing Safari is the new IE.

In a way, but as long as Apple doesn’t have a 95% market share it’s not an abuse of a monopoly like it was with MS. As such, Apple cannot use embrace, extend and extinguish tactics either. Google can and could, given Android’s dominance in some markets (eg. ~95% in India), though globally its share (~70%) is not enough to allow really abusive tactics.

See, the thing is that you are not thinking of each companies incentives. Google makes money out of the web. Apple and Microsoft make money from people using their operating system. They don't want web standards to be more powerful and to replace native apps.

And the market share doesn't matter, cause for iOS users, 100% of them use Safari, and you are not allowed to build a competing browser for it. This freezes web standard development, since it is a major player in the space the is literally against improvement in the space.

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#99

Post by xoac »

askonomm wrote: post #89
xoac wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wtf I just install Firefox and literally don't even register that Edge exists. Have used 11 since the beta. People make this into some very big issue while ignoring that the only real monopoly in this space is Google.

How do you install Firefox without using Edge? By default there is no other browser on Windows, and presumably you need a browser to visit firefox.com, no? Or you carry Firefox installer around on a USB with you?

I guess I don’t mind using edge to install firefox or safari on os x. You got me.

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#100

Post by askonomm »

xoac wrote: post #99
askonomm wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you install Firefox without using Edge? By default there is no other browser on Windows, and presumably you need a browser to visit firefox.com, no? Or you carry Firefox installer around on a USB with you?

I guess I don’t mind using edge to install firefox or safari on os x. You got me.

Well, Safari doesn't have 10 dark-pattern popups it greets you with when you first use it, before you can even type an address into the address bar. Edge does.
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