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Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

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Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#51

Post by amadeuspagel »

ikari_pl wrote: post #33
prof-dr-ir wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the time they merely shipped the browser with the OS. > They were also accused of adding new features only in IE which forced websites to deal with incompatible browsers I do not think this is an accurate representation of history. First, Microsoft was fighting against the whole concept of a browser as separate from its OS. The fact that one can 'change your default browser', as you so casually say, without chan…

> First, Microsoft was fighting against the whole concept of a browser as separate from its OS you mean, just like the Good Guy ChromeOS?

You can install other browsers on ChromeOS in the Linux VM.

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#52

Post by askonomm »

It's so much worse now. Ever tried installing a different browser on Win11 now? Edge tries to dark pattern all your info with 10 sneaky popups when you first open it. Then on Chrome's website Edge will show a popup indicating that Edge is better, and you should use Edge instead. Then setting Chrome to be default is also a pain, as you have to do that manually for each file type and protocol now.

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#53

Post by lupusreal »

ikari_pl wrote: post #33
prof-dr-ir wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the time they merely shipped the browser with the OS. > They were also accused of adding new features only in IE which forced websites to deal with incompatible browsers I do not think this is an accurate representation of history. First, Microsoft was fighting against the whole concept of a browser as separate from its OS. The fact that one can 'change your default browser', as you so casually say, without chan…

> First, Microsoft was fighting against the whole concept of a browser as separate from its OS you mean, just like the Good Guy ChromeOS?

It feels like your comment is about 10 years too late, most people here are now very sour towards Google. They no longer have their sterling "good guy" reputation.

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#54

Post by realusername »

karmasimida wrote: post #50
Dah00n wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a case for arguing Safari is the new IE.

To have IE's status, you need to be in a place that people are hating on you, but can't really deal without you. Safari isn't popular enough to have the latter.

That's exactly where we are at now, it's not like you can tell users to use something else whenever Safari breaks something on every new release, you have to use workarounds.

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#55

Post by drooopy »

cm2187 wrote: post #17

All of these practices feel fairly benign compared to what microsoft is doing now. At the time they merely shipped the browser with the OS. I don't think this would even raise an eyebrow now. They were also accused of adding new features only in IE which forced websites to deal with incompatible browsers. /s of course this is a problem developers do not need to deal with anymore! The Microsoft we are dealing with now…

Helping accelerate the death of Flash was probably Steve Jobs' most important contribution to computing. That said, it's appalling that Apple is getting away with banning 3rd party browser engines on iOS.

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#56

Post by Dalewyn »

askonomm wrote: post #52

It's so much worse now. Ever tried installing a different browser on Win11 now? Edge tries to dark pattern all your info with 10 sneaky popups when you first open it. Then on Chrome's website Edge will show a popup indicating that Edge is better, and you should use Edge instead. Then setting Chrome to be default is also a pain, as you have to do that manually for each file type and protocol now.

>Ever tried installing a different browser on Win11 now?

Yes.

Running Windows 11, I use Chromium for my daily usage and Pale Moon for specific tasks, along with Edge for things I want to cordon in another browser altogether.

Windows 11 hasn't given me grief in my so far ~1.5 years of daily driving it, and I don't necessarily hold Edge's nagging against it since it's browsers catfighting each other. Chrome and Firefox also act likewise when given the chance.

I will note that I have Windows Update completely blocked and disabled via Group Policy, which means my system settings never get reset under the guise of "updates" every month unlike most people's setups. In fact, I'm still running 21H2, NT kernel version 10.0.22000.1281.

Windows 11 is quite well behaved if the administrator actually wields his administrative powers, as it turns out.

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#57

Post by gchamonlive »

Dalewyn wrote: post #56
askonomm wrote: post #52

It's so much worse now. Ever tried installing a different browser on Win11 now? Edge tries to dark pattern all your info with 10 sneaky popups when you first open it. Then on Chrome's website Edge will show a popup indicating that Edge is better, and you should use Edge instead. Then setting Chrome to be default is also a pain, as you have to do that manually for each file type and protocol now.

>Ever tried installing a different browser on Win11 now? Yes. Running Windows 11, I use Chromium for my daily usage and Pale Moon for specific tasks, along with Edge for things I want to cordon in another browser altogether. Windows 11 hasn't given me grief in my so far ~1.5 years of daily driving it, and I don't necessarily hold Edge's nagging against it since it's browsers catfighting each other. Chrome and Firefox…

How is disabling OS updates a sensible decision?

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#58

Post by tinus_hn »

drooopy wrote: post #55
cm2187 wrote: post #17

All of these practices feel fairly benign compared to what microsoft is doing now. At the time they merely shipped the browser with the OS. I don't think this would even raise an eyebrow now. They were also accused of adding new features only in IE which forced websites to deal with incompatible browsers. /s of course this is a problem developers do not need to deal with anymore! The Microsoft we are dealing with now…

Helping accelerate the death of Flash was probably Steve Jobs' most important contribution to computing. That said, it's appalling that Apple is getting away with banning 3rd party browser engines on iOS.

Then again, iOS is a better OS because it can get away with supporting no third party browser engines.

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#59

Post by shakow »

Dalewyn wrote: post #56
askonomm wrote: post #52

It's so much worse now. Ever tried installing a different browser on Win11 now? Edge tries to dark pattern all your info with 10 sneaky popups when you first open it. Then on Chrome's website Edge will show a popup indicating that Edge is better, and you should use Edge instead. Then setting Chrome to be default is also a pain, as you have to do that manually for each file type and protocol now.

>Ever tried installing a different browser on Win11 now? Yes. Running Windows 11, I use Chromium for my daily usage and Pale Moon for specific tasks, along with Edge for things I want to cordon in another browser altogether. Windows 11 hasn't given me grief in my so far ~1.5 years of daily driving it, and I don't necessarily hold Edge's nagging against it since it's browsers catfighting each other. Chrome and Firefox…

> I have Windows Update completely blocked and disabled via Group Policy, which means my system settings never get reset under the guise of "updates" every month unlike most people's setups

That sound unhinged... “so I we handcuffed our manager in my dungeon last year, and since the team has been doing great work; frankly our boss is quite well-behaved if the scrum master actually wields their power”

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#60

Post by JimDabell »

Dah00n wrote: post #35
karmasimida wrote: post #24

Chrome is the new Internet Explorer now. And it is creating its own cardinal sins

I think there's a case for arguing Safari is the new IE.

The defining aspect of Internet Explorer’s impact on the WWW is that, once Microsoft killed Netscape and Internet Explorer 6 gained >95% market share, they shut down development for five years. When Firefox started to become popular, they restarted development.

That’s more than five incredibly long years where front-end web development was dragged down to an absolute standstill by Microsoft. Even the subsequent Internet Explorer 7 was just a quick patch job to fix the weirdest rendering bugs, add some CSS selectors, and add tabs. It wasn’t until Internet Explorer 7 (released in 2006) dropped out of use that web developers could rely upon post-2001 CSS, and it wasn’t until Internet Explorer 8 (released in 2009) dropped out of use that web developers could rely upon post-2001 JavaScript. In that entire 2001–2006 span, the most significant forward motion that happened was a slight change to how a couple of HTTP headers were handled if the user had installed Windows XP Service Pack 2.

Safari, even on its very worst day, is not even remotely on the same scale as the horrific effect Internet Explorer had on the industry. Anybody telling you that “Safari is the new IE” simply has no clue whatsoever what Internet Explorer was like to deal with back in the day. Browser support for absolutely everything was at a complete standstill for most of a decade because of Internet Explorer.

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