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Chimera Linux

chimera-linux.org

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Re: Chimera Linux

#101

Post by sidkshatriya »

musicale wrote: post #76
sidkshatriya wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the longest time using anything but gcc was a problem. But people found clang/llvm better in many respects and persisted. Today clang/llvm is a drop in option, even to compile the Linux kernel. Similarly we should persist with musl. It’s infinitely cleaner, simpler and understandable.

As you imply, it's not really a standard unless there are multiple implementations. I am in favor of standardizing the behavior of libc and having multiple implementations that are commonly used.

I think we should not standardise lunch on Linux. Firstly it will create a lot of acrimony as different people may have opinions.

There is already a standard you need to adhere to. It lives one level lower and is the Linux userland-kernel interface i.e the syscall interface.

Re: Chimera Linux

#102

Post by Rediscover »

krupan wrote: post #89

If you are along time GNU user (meaning GNU grep, sed, less, awk, find, tar, etc., etc.) this will be way more frustrating than you realize to use. Having lived in the UNIX days, I can still remember the subtle differences in all the command-line tools driving me nuts. This is actually how the GNU tools became popular even before Linux was a thing, you could install them on irix, hpux, sun, any UNIX, and you wouldn't…

tar(1) was the command that often bit back at me across the different Un*x implementations, vs awk(1) which for some unknown reason I had internalized the most miniscule differences.

I got into the habit of immediately installing gtar on any Solaris box I had root on (damn the leading "/" in the archive).

-----

The 2nd worst part was dealing with SunOS and HP/UX at work and Ultrix outside of work. Worst part was not grokking why MS-DOS wouldn't buffer keystrokes the few times I was exposed to it.

Re: Chimera Linux

#103

Post by Phelinofist »

q66 wrote: post #73
Levitating wrote: post #41

> Chimera is a general-purpose OS born from unhappiness with the state of Linux distributions. https://xkcd.com/927/ It seems to have a nice build system. But I am not sure this solves any issue any other distribution has. And with the amount of opinionated choices this distribution has I imagine there are few who it fits. I think for many, Void would be a better choice. They do defend/document their choices well. Th…

chimera is designed to solve many issues other distros have; this includes e.g. the poor state of toolchain security hardening (you won't find any other distro with the same practical scope that's more strongly hardened in builds) cbuild is also designed to solve real issues, particularly proper sandboxing and linting of builds to allow for a small team to maintain it while at the same time being fast and ensuring co…

While I'm a die hard Arch user and also kinda like systemd, I think the goals you have are good for the whole FOSS space overall, so I hope you succeed! :)

Re: Chimera Linux

#104

Post by lucideer »

krupan wrote: post #89

If you are along time GNU user (meaning GNU grep, sed, less, awk, find, tar, etc., etc.) this will be way more frustrating than you realize to use. Having lived in the UNIX days, I can still remember the subtle differences in all the command-line tools driving me nuts. This is actually how the GNU tools became popular even before Linux was a thing, you could install them on irix, hpux, sun, any UNIX, and you wouldn't…

If the APIs of CLI utils is the primary concern, it's worth noting that they say their core userland is provided by "FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD" - so any friction here should in theory just be equivalent to the friction of using a BSD today (or Mac).

Re: Chimera Linux

#105

Post by pjmlp »

krupan wrote: post #89

If you are along time GNU user (meaning GNU grep, sed, less, awk, find, tar, etc., etc.) this will be way more frustrating than you realize to use. Having lived in the UNIX days, I can still remember the subtle differences in all the command-line tools driving me nuts. This is actually how the GNU tools became popular even before Linux was a thing, you could install them on irix, hpux, sun, any UNIX, and you wouldn't…

I do confess having installed the GNU ports on Solaris multiple times.

Unfortunely Aix and HP-UX servers were out of my control, thus scripts had to stay POSIX compatible for anything that had to run across all our servers, or written in Perl.

Re: Chimera Linux

#106

Post by anthk »

pjmlp wrote: post #100
atlas_hugged wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fundie Apología isn’t much better.

macOS, iOS, Android, ChromeOS, PlayStation and WSL. Welcome to what a world without GNU looks like.

That "GNU" religion you call it has been able to speed up computing like no time else.

Android have been enshitifying the last releases on encryption and privacy. Ironically Replicant 6 (libred Android 6.0) has more settings for that than the current Android 12.

On Chrome OS, it's just a shell to Google services. Put these services down, no your device it's 75% useless.

On PS, it's just a DRM -potentially-brickable-without-internet- console, and I 've had more fun overall with 8-16 bit games on a EEPROM based device (technically not a computing device, it's everything hardware, so it's fine), than the current DRM locked consoles with 'always-online' features making them useless too when your ISP goes down. At least with a ROM burned handheld I can play games anywhere and any time.

Re: Chimera Linux

#107

Post by prmoustache »

j4ah4n wrote: post #49
5- wrote: post #10

i really like a lot of design choices in chimera linux (particularly around its packaging/build system), but as a current alpine linux (main pc, not docker) user, i find i still can't justify musl. i like small simple correct software, but musl, despite being all of those things, is, in my experience - slower than glibc, and in occasionally difficult to predict spots; - causes just a bit too much trouble porting soft…

Off topic, but would you have any suggestion or resources to start using alpine on a main pc? I have a System 76 machine I wouldn’t mind trying this out with.

https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2023-04-30-alpine-as-desktop-c...

Re: Chimera Linux

#108

Post by anthk »

akosoaaafjdr wrote: post #38
xcv123 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GNU is defined as what it is; that it is an operating system and that it is free software. "What is GNU? GNU is an operating system that is free software—that is, it respects users' freedom." https://www.gnu.org Although GNU stands for "GNU is NOT Unix" that doesn't count as its a boomer hacker meme that started before GNU.

I'll add that most anti-GNU people I know in the BSD space and related projects are not at all against GNU politically speaking or it's ideals or the free software movement. We mostly think that a variety of terrible technical decisions have been made and allowed to metastisize over the years, and that they are largely unfixable so long as Linux remains an operating system devoted primarily to ease of use, popularity…

Hyperbola GNU/Linux will be rebased soon under an OpenBSD 7.0 kernel and userland so you will get the both worlds: A GNU licensed OS without a bloated userland, we even got Xenocara. We don't even have DBUS. Emacs and notifications.el? write your own (notifications-notify) at ~/.emacs callling play from sox and herbe with (&rest arg) as the function arguments, where externally a script would suffice to call both as a single program.

On the GNU userland, something I hate it's the lack of integration. Emacs' calc shoudln't be calling Gnuplot, but GNU plotutils, at these should be enhanced to create 3D plots. Also, GNU Texinfo shoudln't be calling a full Texlive install to render math and PS/PDF files, but GNU Groff and geqn/gpic...

OFC

Re: Chimera Linux

#109

Post by anthk »

cycomanic wrote: post #59
akosoaaafjdr wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they are saying that in the operating system developer way, where "just works" means coherent and behaving according to some technical specification. It absolutely does not mean "no manual programming or customization from the user required". It means no dirty hacks, like the ones mainstream distros employ to make some of the customization and programming unnecessary that is actually kind of inherent to the w…

Citation needed, seriously if you make such broad, sweeping statements at lest back it up with specific evidence.

GNU glibc has some gratuitous extensions over ANSI C/C99. Unix utilities have long non-standard and non-POSIX based flags.

Re: Chimera Linux

#110

Post by eternityforest »

abeyer wrote: post #72

I think I'd be a lot more excited about this if it didn't seem to be bought into the wayland hype train. I feel like they made a lot of good decisions in being simple enough without too simple, and backwards compatible enough without too much legacy... but imho wayland doesn't fit in that same space for me (at least not yet.)

It seems like all the big name companies are 100% for Wayland, breaking compatibility with them seems like a hassle, regardless of how good Wayland itself is.
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