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Chimera Linux

chimera-linux.org

21–30 of 224 posts

Re: Chimera Linux

#21

It's really cool, but I get worried anytime I see something that seems to want to be a user friendly, mainstream distro, after seeing how hard Manjaro tried with the whole "Bring simplicity to the masses" stuff and how many issues they still have. Is this an experimental or hobby distro or does it intend to be something grandma can use? If I had to choose this or BSD, it looks like I'd very strongly considering this…

"""Anyone who's not an Arch/Kali/BSD/suckless enthusiast type has a finely tuned sense of "Oh no, that makes me feel the same way that thinking about a project car does, I'm outta here"."""

excellent observation

Re: Chimera Linux

#22

So they're basically saying "our system will be better because more things will just work" but then they decided to use nonstandard libc and coreutils so actually getting existing Linux scripts and software to work in this distro will be harder .

Saying musl is non-standard is a serious allegation. Can you expand on that? In what way does it violate the standard?

> Saying musk is non-standard is a serious allegation.

No, it isn't. It's the GP's opinion.

Standard has a few different meanings, including something typically or commonly used. As in "GNU Libc has been the standard C library used by Linux distributions since 1991." That would be, you know, a statement of fact. Musl is, at best, a niche option used by a few distros.

Re: Chimera Linux

#23
post #3

> Chimera is a general-purpose OS born from unhappiness with the state of Linux distributions. It's built around the core idea that a simple system does not have to require endless setup and customization to be practical. This seems disingenuous at best. Many distros already supply this feature. Debian is the most notable but there are many others. Install it, make any tweaks you want from the base install, sit on it…

“I usually steer away from projects which are defined by what they are not. It seems to build a community whose roots are based in hostility.”

This is a somewhat ironic indictment of a project opting to avoid GNU. In fact, your quote could serve as a valid argument to avoid GNU. I cannot think of a project more completely defined by what it is not. I would certainly find it difficult to argue that GNU and its founder have not been a source of discord and hostility. The Open Source movement is a direct response to the hostile politics of GNU and Free Software.

In the case of Chimera Linux though, the founder has been pretty clear that they made their choices for engineering reasons and not political ones. There are lots of GNU packages in Chimera if you want them.

Re: Chimera Linux

#24
post #3

> Chimera is a general-purpose OS born from unhappiness with the state of Linux distributions. It's built around the core idea that a simple system does not have to require endless setup and customization to be practical. This seems disingenuous at best. Many distros already supply this feature. Debian is the most notable but there are many others. Install it, make any tweaks you want from the base install, sit on it…

Not just not GNU: they also ditch systemd for dinit, syslog-ng and a bunch of homegrown plumbing: > We are also putting a lot of effort into writing fresh low-level plumbing. For example, Chimera comes with first-class and built-in support for user services and other things dependent on session tracking (such as a shared session bus), implemented from scratch thanks to our Turnstile project, finally bringing function…

Good to know. That was my first question.

I hope this means they also get rid of nonsense like pulseaudio and logind.

I’m a bit skeptical of the “shared session bus” though. Linux supports inode watches for things that want to react to configuration changes, and session busses add a ton of complexity (including a second authorization language, and a userland SPOF)

Re: Chimera Linux

#25
post #10

i really like a lot of design choices in chimera linux (particularly around its packaging/build system), but as a current alpine linux (main pc, not docker) user, i find i still can't justify musl. i like small simple correct software, but musl, despite being all of those things, is, in my experience - slower than glibc, and in occasionally difficult to predict spots; - causes just a bit too much trouble porting soft…

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Re: Chimera Linux

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read "nonstandard" in their comment by its dictionary definition ("not average, normal, or usual"). Not that it literally violates a published standard.

That strikes me as disingenuous. Can you show me even one example of another person using "nonstandard" in this way as applied to a C library ?

Glibc is the standard (as in the most commonly used) libc. Musl is not commonly used. Musl is not the standard libc on Linux.

It requires some effort to migrate applications to musl, and there are functional differences from glibc. https://wiki.musl-libc.org/functional-differences-from-glibc...

Re: Chimera Linux

#27
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just not GNU: they also ditch systemd for dinit, syslog-ng and a bunch of homegrown plumbing: > We are also putting a lot of effort into writing fresh low-level plumbing. For example, Chimera comes with first-class and built-in support for user services and other things dependent on session tracking (such as a shared session bus), implemented from scratch thanks to our Turnstile project, finally bringing function…

Good to know. That was my first question. I hope this means they also get rid of nonsense like pulseaudio and logind. I’m a bit skeptical of the “shared session bus” though. Linux supports inode watches for things that want to react to configuration changes, and session busses add a ton of complexity (including a second authorization language, and a userland SPOF)

They use pipewire IIRC (which is 1.0 now!!).

And they have a custom alternative to login AIUI.

Re: Chimera Linux

#28

It's really cool, but I get worried anytime I see something that seems to want to be a user friendly, mainstream distro, after seeing how hard Manjaro tried with the whole "Bring simplicity to the masses" stuff and how many issues they still have. Is this an experimental or hobby distro or does it intend to be something grandma can use? If I had to choose this or BSD, it looks like I'd very strongly considering this…

I mean yeah, this is transparently a BSD esque project it looks like, as in its pretty clearly tailored specifically to provide the kinds of features professional systems programmers and admins have been clamoring for from Linux for a very long time. Chimera is basically exactly what FreeBSD is but with a Linux kernel (for instance, clang/LLVM as the system compiler and lack of glibc as system libc), I'd imagine there is substantial overlap in our communities. I'll also add that I think these are worthwhile and long overdo technical improvements over the very substandard and strictly worse-than-unix situation in common Linux distros these days. So I support the project, if only to support something that can hopefully prevent Linux from completing its transition into utter shit.

You are spot on about this project I think in your analysis and I think it simply isn't ever going to be something everybody will want to use. That's okay, like you said, some don't want to participate in operating system development, you are mostly looking to be a user. There are plenty of free and open source operating systems that will mostly provide that kind of experience for you. The intent with something like Chimera is probably to dogfood these sorts of improvements so that other more user friendly distributions can use it as an upstream source in the future. So maybe one day we will see a more user friendly version of this.

Re: Chimera Linux

#29
post #3

> Chimera is a general-purpose OS born from unhappiness with the state of Linux distributions. It's built around the core idea that a simple system does not have to require endless setup and customization to be practical. This seems disingenuous at best. Many distros already supply this feature. Debian is the most notable but there are many others. Install it, make any tweaks you want from the base install, sit on it…

“I usually steer away from projects which are defined by what they are not. It seems to build a community whose roots are based in hostility.” This is a somewhat ironic indictment of a project opting to avoid GNU. In fact, your quote could serve as a valid argument to avoid GNU. I cannot think of a project more completely defined by what it is not. I would certainly find it difficult to argue that GNU and its founder…

GNU is defined as what it is; that it is an operating system and that it is free software.

"What is GNU? GNU is an operating system that is free software—that is, it respects users' freedom."

https://www.gnu.org

Although GNU stands for "GNU is NOT Unix" that doesn't count as its a boomer hacker meme that started before GNU.

Re: Chimera Linux

#30
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That strikes me as disingenuous. Can you show me even one example of another person using "nonstandard" in this way as applied to a C library ?

Glibc is the standard (as in the most commonly used) libc. Musl is not commonly used. Musl is not the standard libc on Linux. It requires some effort to migrate applications to musl, and there are functional differences from glibc. https://wiki.musl-libc.org/functional-differences-from-glibc...

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