Tesla driver who killed 2 people while using autopilot must pay $23,000, no jail • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla driver who killed 2 people while using autopilot must pay $23,000, no jail

#21

Post by justin_oaks » Sat, Dec 16, 2023, 11:28 PM UTC

I don't believe that partially automated driving, as shown by Autopilot is fit for human use. People will rely on it as if it's fully automated and more accidents like this will happen.

We see this same problem with face recognition software that says an innocent man's face matches a criminal. The cops just accept what the computer says and arrest people because the computer says it's a match.

We can't have the machine do stuff for us unless it's superior to human judgment, or the stakes are much lower than ruining lives.

Re: Tesla driver who killed 2 people while using autopilot must pay $23,000, no jail

#22

Post by maxcan » Sat, Dec 16, 2023, 11:29 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #6

HPMOR wrote: post #3

The incentives in the United States strongly favor pedestrian fatalities and reckless driving. It is insane that killing two people in a car accident is treated with a fine instead of ANY jail time. There’s a reason why fatalities on roadways continue to increase in the US. This is one of them.

> insane that killing two people in a car accident is treated with a fine instead of ANY jail time Which component of justice— retribution, incapacitation, deterrence, rehabilitation and reparation [1]—is served by jailing this person? The only one I see is retribution. Given the families are pursuing damages, the reparation prerogative is better served with him out of jail (and not draining his assets fighting priso…

Deterrence clearly would be served from drivers predictably knowing that causing pedestrian fatalities would lead to jail time.

Re: Tesla driver who killed 2 people while using autopilot must pay $23,000, no jail

#23

Post by wilg » Sat, Dec 16, 2023, 11:30 PM UTC

theossuary wrote: post #12

jwalton wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was this guy doing while the vehicle he was supposed to be controlling ran a red light at more than twice the posted speed limit? The article is lacking on details here. If he was, say, watching a movie on his phone, then he should go to jail to deter others from watching movies on their phones.

Also to keep him out of public for other's safety. Seems like him going to jail checks 3/5 at least.

So would revoking the driver's license.

Re: Tesla driver who killed 2 people while using autopilot must pay $23,000, no jail

#24

Post by charcircuit » Sat, Dec 16, 2023, 11:31 PM UTC

HPMOR wrote: post #3

The incentives in the United States strongly favor pedestrian fatalities and reckless driving. It is insane that killing two people in a car accident is treated with a fine instead of ANY jail time. There’s a reason why fatalities on roadways continue to increase in the US. This is one of them.

There were no pedestrian fatalities here.

Re: Tesla driver who killed 2 people while using autopilot must pay $23,000, no jail

#25

Post by Ekaros » Sat, Dec 16, 2023, 11:31 PM UTC

wilg wrote: post #23

theossuary wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also to keep him out of public for other's safety. Seems like him going to jail checks 3/5 at least.

So would revoking the driver's license.

Already failed to do due diligence and ensure system he was using was fully safe. Do you think removal of license would prevent anything? As far as I know not all cars yet have license readers before starting.

Re: Tesla driver who killed 2 people while using autopilot must pay $23,000, no jail

#26

Post by ErasticBrub » Sat, Dec 16, 2023, 11:33 PM UTC

Ekaros wrote: post #19

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> say 10 years per murdered person Sure. Nobody was murdered. > clearly 23k is not high enough to stop many people from repeating this crime That’s not the penalty. It’s a criminal conviction, the fine and probation. I don’t know the terms of the probation, but I assume it means he goes to jail for traffic infractions. Also, he’s going to pay a lot more than $23k given the civil case is ongoing.

Don't you find 23k fine insanely low for in essence murdering two people? To me it is laughable amount. This sort of crime should have such a high fine that everyone including billionaires will be deterred to repeat it.

[flagged]

Re: Tesla driver who killed 2 people while using autopilot must pay $23,000, no jail

#27

Post by wilg » Sat, Dec 16, 2023, 11:34 PM UTC

I would like the NHTSA to gather and publish robust data on:

• Crashes per mile on each manufacturer's "self-driving" systems

• Crashes per mile on each manufacturer's LKAS (lane keeping assistant) systems

• Crashes per mile on each manufacturer's TACC (traffic aware cruise control)

• Crashes per mile on each manufacturer's regular cruise control

• Crashes per mile under manual control

Break each out by highway, suburban, city, and car model year. Also include whether the crash resulted in injuries and deaths, and whether those deaths were occupants or not.

Then we can actually determine where the problem is, and the scope of it.

Re: Tesla driver who killed 2 people while using autopilot must pay $23,000, no jail

#28

Post by StayTrue » Sat, Dec 16, 2023, 11:35 PM UTC

HPMOR wrote: post #3

The incentives in the United States strongly favor pedestrian fatalities and reckless driving. It is insane that killing two people in a car accident is treated with a fine instead of ANY jail time. There’s a reason why fatalities on roadways continue to increase in the US. This is one of them.

I can't say I agree jail time is the solution. I would like to see lifetime driving prohibitions but somehow that's never on the table.

Re: Tesla driver who killed 2 people while using autopilot must pay $23,000, no jail

#29

Post by throwaway5959 » Sat, Dec 16, 2023, 11:35 PM UTC

bdcravens wrote: post #5

iAMkenough wrote: post #2

$11,500 per human life extinguished for no reason. Tesla can easily cover that cost for the driver.

That's just the criminal penalty. There is still a civil case against both the driver and Tesla; that will likely be substantial.

That fucker isn’t going to spend a day in jail. He should be in prison for at least a decade. You don’t accidentally go 74 miles an hour down an off ramp.

Re: Tesla driver who killed 2 people while using autopilot must pay $23,000, no jail

#30

Post by thfuran » Sat, Dec 16, 2023, 11:37 PM UTC

wilg wrote: post #27

I would like the NHTSA to gather and publish robust data on: • Crashes per mile on each manufacturer's "self-driving" systems • Crashes per mile on each manufacturer's LKAS (lane keeping assistant) systems • Crashes per mile on each manufacturer's TACC (traffic aware cruise control) • Crashes per mile on each manufacturer's regular cruise control • Crashes per mile under manual control Break each out by highway, subu…

I suspect age correlates with vehicle choice and know it correlates with accident rates, so I'm not sure those figures would tell you what you think they're telling you.