We have a Mach-E but I don't expect to be petrol free for a long time. I worry that the car will be a brick in 5 years. I'm not worried about the 15 F250, 95 F250, the 87 Chevy truck, the 2003 Excursion having that problem. If it lasts 10 years and is a good experience then we might be happy to switch.
Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
181–190 of 243 posts
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
> if you take a look at the numbers above it's not that bad and we drive a new, safe, no issues (free servicing) car every 3-4 years. Driving a new car every few years is incredibly decadent. If you bought a car, paid it off in 5 years and drove it for another 10, you’d be saving thousands every year. Repeat that cycle every 15 years and invest the savings, and you’re talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars in…
> drove it for another 10 What about maintenance? There's a lot of moving parts (often the labor to get to the part costs more than the part itself) and a stroke of bad luck can quickly balloon into 4-digit sums. Paying a flat monthly fee for transport sounds like an attractive option to not have to worry about any of that.
Maintenance costs are easily managed by avoiding brands which generally require frequent or expensive maintenance. Regardless, they don’t hold a candle to the long term savings.
If one lacks the rainy-day savings to afford a hypothetical thousand-dollar repair bill, one certainly cannot afford to throw away thousands of dollars every year “to not have to worry” about one’s precarious finances.
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder do any of them realise they’re paying the maximum depreciation every single time too. Losing 20k+ in depreciation every year feels like a great way to stay poor
On the flip side, using PCP means that you get a brand new car and it has a warrantee. You could buy a banger for £500 - but then you're always going to be wondering if today is the day it'll cost you £££ to repair. And if you can't get in to work, that'll cost you dearly as well. £300 per month to basically not have to worry about any unexpected bills seems reasonable to me. Plus you get the social value of having a…
I have a car I bought on PCP so I understand that math, but when the dealers starts calling after one year trying to get you to re-up it’s a poor decision financially
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#184Electric cars are simply not as good as their ICE counterparts, at least at the low/mid tier. High end you've got great options. But there seems to be no electric competitor to the Toyota Corolla that is as good or better at the same or lower price.
Tesla have claimed that the Model 3 has the same TCO as a Corolla after 5 years, so does that count?
https://thedriven.io/2023/04/27/tesla-model-3-total-cost-of-...
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#185We have a Mach-E but I don't expect to be petrol free for a long time. I worry that the car will be a brick in 5 years. I'm not worried about the 15 F250, 95 F250, the 87 Chevy truck, the 2003 Excursion having that problem. If it lasts 10 years and is a good experience then we might be happy to switch.
Why would it be a brick? It looks like it has an 8 year warranty on the battery which is what most people worry about. NMC batteries should last at least 1,000 cycles which equates to 200,000 miles if it gets 200 miles to a charge. LFP batteries should get 2 - 3 times that.
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
> drove it for another 10 What about maintenance? There's a lot of moving parts (often the labor to get to the part costs more than the part itself) and a stroke of bad luck can quickly balloon into 4-digit sums. Paying a flat monthly fee for transport sounds like an attractive option to not have to worry about any of that.
This is exactly it. Worry free transport option. We have a set monthly budget for transport and we get whatever car is we think best available for our budget when lease is up. I never have to worry about service, the car is always in warranty, etc.
I'm driving a 900£ focus, cost me 200£ to service once a year, otherwise it's just ticking a long great...
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have Enyaq iv80. Charging rate means nothing when there are chargers in France which just won't give you juice because reasons. So then you need to slowly crawl to another charger like a clown to have even chance to get there. Additionally it was during December, so cold weather reduced range even more, therefore your estimation would be correct but for summer time.
My experience riding over 37k km in less than a year all around Europe with my Tesla Model Y hasn't been any like it (many trips, including from The Hague to Malmö, The Hague to Berlin, The Hague to Budapest passing by Vienna, and more trips than I can count to Belgium, twice to Switzerland, and also all the way South to Barcelona). I think your car model isn't very appropriate for long distance travels, as most EVs.…
That is part of the problem though. With petrol, you can hop into anyone old car, and go where you want, as much as you want. With 5 minute stops every few hundred miles
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#188I have an acquaintance that bought an electric BMW for roughly €80,000. My Dacia has cost me €4500 when it was brand new 14 years ago and I'm still driving it. In my opinion electric cars are too expensive, yeah :)
This has to be a satirical comment.
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#189As an electric car owner for the last 5 years (a Peugeot Ion), price is not my primary concern. What I want is a car with better range (250km+ in the winter), that seats 5, weighs 1100kg max, with no screen, and can tow 500kg. A plus: being able to swap the battery for a reasonable price when it gets too old. It's a shame these cars need to go to the dump at 10 years just because of the battery.
Where are you getting the 10 years from?
Re: Are electric cars too expensive to tempt motorists away from petrol vehicles?
#190Two years ago I spend nearly a month hunting for a decent electric vehicle. I had plenty of funds, and could theoretically afford a lower-end tesla. I was, at the time, driving a 2002 Honda Civic Hybrid, because to me, going electric makes sense. I was aware of the range limitations, and even had an agreement with my landlord to get a 220v outlet installed in the garage. I ultimately abandoned my endeavor because non…
This reads paranoid and hyperbolic. I’m gonna need sources that you actually cannot repair an EV yourself. Parts sourcing may be difficult, and I’m sure there’s some certification you need as a mechanic to work on high voltage systems in some states, but the vast vast majority of work on EVs is boring normal stuff like brakes, fluids, etc. Nobody is getting thrown in jail for opening the hood on their own car, that’s…
> This reads paranoid and hyperbolic.
It does read paranoid, because the whole things should be ridiculous in a sane world. That's part of the problem. This shouldn't even be a concern, but it is.
> I'm gonna needs source...
Unfortunately the source is to read through Oklahoma Statute 40-142, since it's a fairly interwoven and long document that establishes what Alternate Fuel Technicians must do to be certified, what vehicles must be serviced by said technicians, and what the consequences are for violating those requirements. Of note, the statute calls out EVs as falling under the statue requirements, and what your allowed to modify is a (short) list of exceptions, rather than a list of restrictions. There's no single line to point to, as is true for a lot of law stuff.
> Also, nobody is bricking anyone's car. If you're that paranoid about remote access, it's possible to just remove the cell access.
First, please read the last 3 references of my previous comment. There is a clear and present pattern of increased removal of access via remote updates. Furthermore, removing that cell access hampers the car significantly, with no allowed alternative. The option is to let them listen, or watch your infotainment system be effectively paralyzed. I would be happy with an option to simply swap out the infotainment with something else, like I did with my 2002 Honda Civic, but it's their system or nothing. Plus, it takes one trip to the repair shop, which must be a first-party repair shop, since no one else is allowed access to the needed codes to reset the computers, for something to be updated without my consent, and a feature (or the whole car) to be bricked "for your safety". It need not even be that involved. Again, the above train example used geo-fencing to decide when to brick the train. no remote connection needed.
This isn't just a matter of can I hobble a car enough to not abuse me. It's about what part of the car do I really own. Am I allowed to modify it? Are enough of the systems cryptographically secured to, in-practice, prevent me from changing something like a break-pad? Will I need to completely replace the engine computer to swap out the music app?
Right now the answer is that the car isn't mine, and I'm not allowed to make changes. Not in practice, and not in principle.