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Apple responds to the Beeper iMessage saga: 'We took steps to protect our users'

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Re: Apple responds to the Beeper iMessage saga: 'We took steps to protect our users'

#11

I've asked this 3 times across the various threads on this, and have yet to get a 100% confirmed "you are right" answer because I don't know the specifics and I haven't come into anybody who has taken the time to research the answer: When you log in to iMessage and the various underlying protocols/services, you do it with an Apple ID. Is that Apple ID tied in a one-to-many (but you need at least one) fashion of regis…

It's a good question. On a previous thread, someone here mentioned that it allows for Hackintoshes.

As long as the people using fake serials are a small group of hackers, developers, etc. who are hardcore Apple fans in the first place and merely building things for personal use, I can see Apple intentionally turning a blind eye.

But once that starts getting abused to build a consumer product at scale, it becomes a whole different story.

And I have to imagine it becomes difficult when dealing with old devices, 99% of which have long since been thrown out or recycled, and those serial numbers are ripe for re-use, but there are still people using 10-year-old iPads.

Re: Apple responds to the Beeper iMessage saga: 'We took steps to protect our users'

#12
post #8

iMessage is just about the only form of communication that I’ve NEVER received any spam through. I get spam SMS all the time and spam calls all the time . I get spam emails 24/7, and even spam DMs on any social media platform that has DMs. There is no iMessage spam. Apple has it tightly controlled and locked down. I can kinda see why Apple wants to preserve their ecosystem. But also, there are so many other options i…

I get iMessage spam all the time, Apple even has a report spam feature so it’s clearly an issue. I guess you’re just lucky but it definitely exists. I got four just in the last day even.

Wonder what the cause is? I don’t think I’ve literally ever received a spam on iMessage

Re: Apple responds to the Beeper iMessage saga: 'We took steps to protect our users'

#13
This isn't a technical problem. Nobody really uses iMessage enough in the EU, but in the USA where people seem to shun use of third-party messaging apps like WhatsApp, the solution would be to deem Apple a "gatekeeper" under legislation equivalent to the Digital Markets Act and force interoperability via regulation given Apple's market dominance.

The regulatory process has worked with side-loading, and EU citizens will be better off as a result once the functionality is made available, in the same way as not needing to buy a pointless proprietary cable.

Re: Apple responds to the Beeper iMessage saga: 'We took steps to protect our users'

#14

I've asked this 3 times across the various threads on this, and have yet to get a 100% confirmed "you are right" answer because I don't know the specifics and I haven't come into anybody who has taken the time to research the answer: When you log in to iMessage and the various underlying protocols/services, you do it with an Apple ID. Is that Apple ID tied in a one-to-many (but you need at least one) fashion of regis…

I’ve had this same question. I use beeper because I’m an Apple user and want access to what I pay for.

I’m confused by the pathway where paying apple can be skipped.

Re: Apple responds to the Beeper iMessage saga: 'We took steps to protect our users'

#15

iMessage is just about the only form of communication that I’ve NEVER received any spam through. I get spam SMS all the time and spam calls all the time . I get spam emails 24/7, and even spam DMs on any social media platform that has DMs. There is no iMessage spam. Apple has it tightly controlled and locked down. I can kinda see why Apple wants to preserve their ecosystem. But also, there are so many other options i…

It is conclusively trivial to automate the iMessage client using accessibility APIs and in fact this has been done many times before to great effect by numerous developers to implement everything from auto responders to bridges for iMessage from other systems... including by Beeper for prior versions of their product!

And like, hell: you mention "social media platforms", but they also have been known to put in lots of effort at times to break alternative clients... Meta, in particular, sometimes goes to lengths sufficiently annoying that a ton of real users using browser extensions on Instagram/Facebook get caught in the cross-fire.

If you want to send spam over iMessage, the thing preventing that is categorically--and, frankly, obviously to anyone who is willing to question Apple's PR spin--not (and never was) the inability to use it from a device running Android or anything about the inscrutability of its protocol being documented and re-implemented by others.

Re: Apple responds to the Beeper iMessage saga: 'We took steps to protect our users'

#16

In other words, Apple wants to control who enters their garden. Not surprised and not sure I disagree. Why is it that Beeper, or anyone else that isn’t Apple gets to decide who uses iMessage?

Not defending Apple but this question makes no sense. They created iMessage and they own the services that provide it. Why would they not get to decide who can use their service the same as any other company with a TOS and any brick and mortar store who can refuse service. I don’t understand the logic around this that people feel they are owed access to shit they dont own or operate. I’m all for open protocols and would like to see that here, but Apple doesn’t owe you anything and they don’t become one of the biggest companies in the world by shooting themselves in the foot. It’s the only way they would do this, just look at their track record and set your expectations accordingly. Apple won’t do anything that would remotely hinder sales even a small amount. iPhone sales are dropping because it’s the same shit every year, they won’t be giving open access to iMessage and hurt those numbers now more than ever.

Re: Apple responds to the Beeper iMessage saga: 'We took steps to protect our users'

#17
post #13

This isn't a technical problem. Nobody really uses iMessage enough in the EU, but in the USA where people seem to shun use of third-party messaging apps like WhatsApp, the solution would be to deem Apple a "gatekeeper" under legislation equivalent to the Digital Markets Act and force interoperability via regulation given Apple's market dominance. The regulatory process has worked with side-loading, and EU citizens wi…

Almost 80 million users of whatsapp in the US (330m pop) vs 120 million users in all of Europe (746m pop) kind of undermines that line of reasoning? If anything, the US uses whatsapp way more than Europe.

If we were looking at true third party messaging platforms that aren't owned by trillion dollar mega corps that can push their products onto every phone, then... maybe? The US barely uses Telegram compared to Europe, and signal's website sees about as much use from the US as it does from only Germany. But if the argument is about the US using iMessage more because they don't use other messaging platforms, then no, the numbers do not bear that out at all.

Re: Apple responds to the Beeper iMessage saga: 'We took steps to protect our users'

#18

I've asked this 3 times across the various threads on this, and have yet to get a 100% confirmed "you are right" answer because I don't know the specifics and I haven't come into anybody who has taken the time to research the answer: When you log in to iMessage and the various underlying protocols/services, you do it with an Apple ID. Is that Apple ID tied in a one-to-many (but you need at least one) fashion of regis…

I would suspect that it's because for older devices without hardware crypto processors/certs it's impossible to distinguish between a real device and a Hackintosh (or Beeper client) that's spoofing a serial number. So while validating against a known list makes things harder, it's still not truly "secure" in the sense that older, yet still supported devices (like the 2015 MBP that I had up until about a year ago) aren't able to prove that they're actually the device, since they don't have a way of signing that proof in a way that Apple can verify.

Re: Apple responds to the Beeper iMessage saga: 'We took steps to protect our users'

#19

I've asked this 3 times across the various threads on this, and have yet to get a 100% confirmed "you are right" answer because I don't know the specifics and I haven't come into anybody who has taken the time to research the answer: When you log in to iMessage and the various underlying protocols/services, you do it with an Apple ID. Is that Apple ID tied in a one-to-many (but you need at least one) fashion of regis…

Microsoft is the company trying the hardest to force users to dial back to Microsoft before using their products, as far as I know. Quite a wide base of users detest the process & loath it. It feels incredibly tacky & I would not recommend Apple lower themselves so.

And it's still nowhere near what you are asking for. What exactly is "validating" a serial number? Are you saying users need to present receipt of purchase? Does the store need to provide proof? Maybe Apple validates by getting access to you bank statements? How are these proof of sales tied to individual specific devices?

This feels like clutching for certainty. Maybe Apple can have such a tight & narrow sales model, can get every cell phone company managing their inventory with vastly tighter inventory control (tracking which specific devices are ss) than anyone has ever done before. Maybe Apple can pull it off.

Should they? Do they want to be subject to various governments asking who bought which device? Do they want to spend the time updating & maintaining these listings? Are they ok pissing off devs hackers & other enthusiasts who get steamrolled by these changes? Apple can form & deploy the Imperial Royal Guard over their products if they really wanted to, I have scant doubts, but the costs of forming that chain of control, cost of maintaining that database, and the liability of owning such rich data about their users in the current legal climate all seem like colossal prices to pay.

Re: Apple responds to the Beeper iMessage saga: 'We took steps to protect our users'

#20

I've asked this 3 times across the various threads on this, and have yet to get a 100% confirmed "you are right" answer because I don't know the specifics and I haven't come into anybody who has taken the time to research the answer: When you log in to iMessage and the various underlying protocols/services, you do it with an Apple ID. Is that Apple ID tied in a one-to-many (but you need at least one) fashion of regis…

  > If it isn't, why doesn't Apple do this
Not sure if there would be any real benefit in that. Consider the over-abused Macs at university campuses as an example, used by 10s-100s of persons/day, each potentially logging in with their own user ID. Suddenly their ID is tied to a legit HW, if it wasn't the case already. Of course, technically, Apple could ban the IDs or these computers... but why would they?
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