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NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus

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Re: NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus

#11

Post by staplers »

ianai wrote: post #7
passwordoops wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydrogen cyanide, acetylene, propylene, ethane, propene would all react very quickly with oxygen, if it is being produced. I imagine like early earth, if there are organisms they are following an anoxic pathway

So is it because the life signals so far suggest simple life that money isn't really pouring into an expedition? That's my inkling anyway. Turns out us apes are still far more interested in everyday stuff than even life outside our sphere. i.e. I would expect "enthusiasm" to look like discussions on building the infrastructure for multiple missions out there. Communications way points, some basic resource stuff, etc.…

The discovery of even the most base simple lifeform outside Earth would be forever world-changing.

Society, religion, mass institutions would be forced to reconcile with this fact.

I don't think it's necessarily about money.

Re: NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus

#12

Post by s1artibartfast »

tshaddox wrote: post #8
superposeur wrote: post #6

This is intriguing and I’m very happy this exploration is being done. But, for decades, I’ve been reading reports of the discovery of evidence for the trappings of life elsewhere: water and organics and “habitable” exoplanets. These are valuable discoveries, but the tone of the reports suggest they imply life is about to turn up. It’s worth remembering that there is not one single shred of evidence that life has ever…

> It’s worth remembering that there is not one single shred of evidence that life has ever existed anywhere in the observable universe but Earth. I’m curious how your epistemology is working here. It seems to me that this will also be true in the future if we have found life on a hundred other planets. There still won’t be a shred of evidence of life anywhere else , and we still won’t have the faintest estimate of ho…

the epistemology rests on how you construct the question, and the underlying logic.

"Does life exist anywhere besides earth" is a very different question than "does life exist outside these 100 planets". Because they are different questions, the relevancy of data and hypotheses are different.

Re: NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus

#13

Post by Symmetry »

ianai wrote: post #2

yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38652897 Hydrogen cyanide, acetylene, propylene, ethane, propene. There's bacteria that live off acetylene (though surely abiotic processes too). I suspect this indicates plenty of energy and complex chemistry on Enceladus. Some of those compounds are energetic while others (I think?) are combustion bi-products. Otherwise, I wonder when/if we'll ever see oxygen (O2) con…

I'd be very surprised if we saw oxygen. Photosynthesis took much longer to evolve on Earth than life did in the first place, and on Enceladus you have both a thick layer of ice preventing sunlight from reaching liquid water and also a much dimmer Sun in the first place due to how far away Jupiter is.

Re: NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus

#14

Post by superposeur »

ianai wrote: post #9
tshaddox wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s worth remembering that there is not one single shred of evidence that life has ever existed anywhere in the observable universe but Earth. I’m curious how your epistemology is working here. It seems to me that this will also be true in the future if we have found life on a hundred other planets. There still won’t be a shred of evidence of life anywhere else , and we still won’t have the faintest estimate of ho…

idk, I think if we see even simple life at multiple points in our own system that we can increase our expectations for the prevalence of life very significantly. And of course given how vast and indifferent to life the universe is, life would still be vanishingly rare in the universe. It's going to be always precious and a gem.

I agree, if — that’s an enormous “if”.

Re: NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus

#15

Post by FL33TW00D »

superposeur wrote: post #6

This is intriguing and I’m very happy this exploration is being done. But, for decades, I’ve been reading reports of the discovery of evidence for the trappings of life elsewhere: water and organics and “habitable” exoplanets. These are valuable discoveries, but the tone of the reports suggest they imply life is about to turn up. It’s worth remembering that there is not one single shred of evidence that life has ever…

The lack of interest in abiogenesis in most circles is truly outstanding.

Re: NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus

#16

Post by ianai »

superposeur wrote: post #14
ianai wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

idk, I think if we see even simple life at multiple points in our own system that we can increase our expectations for the prevalence of life very significantly. And of course given how vast and indifferent to life the universe is, life would still be vanishingly rare in the universe. It's going to be always precious and a gem.

I agree, if — that’s an enormous “if”.

But it’s actually possible to explore our solar system! We’ve been at it since the 70s!

Re: NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus

#17

Post by NateEag »

staplers wrote: post #11
ianai wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is it because the life signals so far suggest simple life that money isn't really pouring into an expedition? That's my inkling anyway. Turns out us apes are still far more interested in everyday stuff than even life outside our sphere. i.e. I would expect "enthusiasm" to look like discussions on building the infrastructure for multiple missions out there. Communications way points, some basic resource stuff, etc.…

The discovery of even the most base simple lifeform outside Earth would be forever world-changing. Society, religion, mass institutions would be forced to reconcile with this fact. I don't think it's necessarily about money.

What do you think would change about religions?

The only one I know well is evangelical Christianity, having been raised in it.

I've read through the Protestant Bible several times, and I'm not aware of anything in it that changes meaningfully if there's other life forms in the universe.

Re: NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus

#18

Post by ianai »

FL33TW00D wrote: post #15
superposeur wrote: post #6

This is intriguing and I’m very happy this exploration is being done. But, for decades, I’ve been reading reports of the discovery of evidence for the trappings of life elsewhere: water and organics and “habitable” exoplanets. These are valuable discoveries, but the tone of the reports suggest they imply life is about to turn up. It’s worth remembering that there is not one single shred of evidence that life has ever…

The lack of interest in abiogenesis in most circles is truly outstanding.

And here’s another thing. With how difficult it is to probe new physics, we stand to do a lot more research by simply inspecting all the observable universe than trying to build colliders.

Re: NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus

#19

Post by superposeur »

ianai wrote: post #16
superposeur wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, if — that’s an enormous “if”.

But it’s actually possible to explore our solar system! We’ve been at it since the 70s!

Yes and I’m glad we’re doing it! No life or fossilized remains of life of any kind has yet been found.

Re: NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus

#20

Post by martin-t »

staplers wrote: post #11
ianai wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is it because the life signals so far suggest simple life that money isn't really pouring into an expedition? That's my inkling anyway. Turns out us apes are still far more interested in everyday stuff than even life outside our sphere. i.e. I would expect "enthusiasm" to look like discussions on building the infrastructure for multiple missions out there. Communications way points, some basic resource stuff, etc.…

The discovery of even the most base simple lifeform outside Earth would be forever world-changing. Society, religion, mass institutions would be forced to reconcile with this fact. I don't think it's necessarily about money.

You overestimate people. Most wouldn't care at all, a few would say that's cool and move on. Religious people would just say their favorite god created those too. Unless the aliens were more advanced than us, nothing would change.
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