NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus
1–10 of 212 posts
Re: NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus
#2yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38652897
Hydrogen cyanide, acetylene, propylene, ethane, propene. There's bacteria that live off acetylene (though surely abiotic processes too). I suspect this indicates plenty of energy and complex chemistry on Enceladus. Some of those compounds are energetic while others (I think?) are combustion bi-products. Otherwise, I wonder when/if we'll ever see oxygen (O2) confirmed in a study like this? I realize it's highly/easily bound up in reactions, but what a finding that'd be. They list a probability of 0.64 (aka 64%) chance of O2 here. Imagining a surface of water ice and near vacuum atmosphere, I suspect any free oxygen would be very difficult to detect. But they also see co2 so maybe any oxygen is quickly used up? source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-023-02160-0.epdf
Re: NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus
#3yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38652897 Hydrogen cyanide, acetylene, propylene, ethane, propene. There's bacteria that live off acetylene (though surely abiotic processes too). I suspect this indicates plenty of energy and complex chemistry on Enceladus. Some of those compounds are energetic while others (I think?) are combustion bi-products. Otherwise, I wonder when/if we'll ever see oxygen (O2) con…
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Re: NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus
#4yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38652897 Hydrogen cyanide, acetylene, propylene, ethane, propene. There's bacteria that live off acetylene (though surely abiotic processes too). I suspect this indicates plenty of energy and complex chemistry on Enceladus. Some of those compounds are energetic while others (I think?) are combustion bi-products. Otherwise, I wonder when/if we'll ever see oxygen (O2) con…
Hydrogen cyanide, acetylene, propylene, ethane, propene would all react very quickly with oxygen, if it is being produced.
I imagine like early earth, if there are organisms they are following an anoxic pathway
Re: NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus
#5I don't much like the spark and fire analogy with life. Not sure what analogy works. We don't yet really understand life well enough to have a good one.
Re: NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus
#6This is intriguing and I’m very happy this exploration is being done.
But, for decades, I’ve been reading reports of the discovery of evidence for the trappings of life elsewhere: water and organics and “habitable” exoplanets. These are valuable discoveries, but the tone of the reports suggest they imply life is about to turn up.
It’s worth remembering that there is not one single shred of evidence that life has ever existed anywhere in the observable universe but Earth. Moreover, no one has succeeded in hatching living matter from non living matter and we must honestly say we do not know how this process came about or the faintest estimate of how likely it is to occur (despite much speculation, some of which may turn out to be correct but equally may turn out to be dead wrong). The oft cited fact that life arose “quickly” after the formation of Earth has no bearing on the question.
Re: NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus
#7yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38652897 Hydrogen cyanide, acetylene, propylene, ethane, propene. There's bacteria that live off acetylene (though surely abiotic processes too). I suspect this indicates plenty of energy and complex chemistry on Enceladus. Some of those compounds are energetic while others (I think?) are combustion bi-products. Otherwise, I wonder when/if we'll ever see oxygen (O2) con…
Hydrogen cyanide, acetylene, propylene, ethane, propene would all react very quickly with oxygen, if it is being produced. I imagine like early earth, if there are organisms they are following an anoxic pathway
So is it because the life signals so far suggest simple life that money isn't really pouring into an expedition? That's my inkling anyway. Turns out us apes are still far more interested in everyday stuff than even life outside our sphere.
i.e. I would expect "enthusiasm" to look like discussions on building the infrastructure for multiple missions out there. Communications way points, some basic resource stuff, etc. Stuff to make getting things in that system more robust and timely.
Edit: Maybe experiment/do the laser propulsion tech. "Lighthouses" at critical points.
Re: NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus
#8This is intriguing and I’m very happy this exploration is being done. But, for decades, I’ve been reading reports of the discovery of evidence for the trappings of life elsewhere: water and organics and “habitable” exoplanets. These are valuable discoveries, but the tone of the reports suggest they imply life is about to turn up. It’s worth remembering that there is not one single shred of evidence that life has ever…
> It’s worth remembering that there is not one single shred of evidence that life has ever existed anywhere in the observable universe but Earth.
I’m curious how your epistemology is working here. It seems to me that this will also be true in the future if we have found life on a hundred other planets. There still won’t be a shred of evidence of life anywhere else, and we still won’t have the faintest estimate of how likely it is to occur, right?
Re: NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus
#9This is intriguing and I’m very happy this exploration is being done. But, for decades, I’ve been reading reports of the discovery of evidence for the trappings of life elsewhere: water and organics and “habitable” exoplanets. These are valuable discoveries, but the tone of the reports suggest they imply life is about to turn up. It’s worth remembering that there is not one single shred of evidence that life has ever…
> It’s worth remembering that there is not one single shred of evidence that life has ever existed anywhere in the observable universe but Earth. I’m curious how your epistemology is working here. It seems to me that this will also be true in the future if we have found life on a hundred other planets. There still won’t be a shred of evidence of life anywhere else , and we still won’t have the faintest estimate of ho…
idk, I think if we see even simple life at multiple points in our own system that we can increase our expectations for the prevalence of life very significantly.
And of course given how vast and indifferent to life the universe is, life would still be vanishingly rare in the universe. It's going to be always precious and a gem.
Re: NASA study finds life-sparking energy source and molecule at Enceladus
#10This is intriguing and I’m very happy this exploration is being done. But, for decades, I’ve been reading reports of the discovery of evidence for the trappings of life elsewhere: water and organics and “habitable” exoplanets. These are valuable discoveries, but the tone of the reports suggest they imply life is about to turn up. It’s worth remembering that there is not one single shred of evidence that life has ever…
> It’s worth remembering that there is not one single shred of evidence that life has ever existed anywhere in the observable universe but Earth. I’m curious how your epistemology is working here. It seems to me that this will also be true in the future if we have found life on a hundred other planets. There still won’t be a shred of evidence of life anywhere else , and we still won’t have the faintest estimate of ho…
If, in a volume of space, there are N exoplanets and 100 spontaneously created life, then I’d crudely estimate the probability of life at 100/N for a given exoplanet.
Currently, we have only an upper limit on the probability and barely even that. All observations are consistent with a probability less that 10^-40, meaning it certainly wouldn’t happen a second time in the observable universe.