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Fastmail Employees Form a Union

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Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#271
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, the Phillips curve, really? That's a flawed boomer way to correlate inflation and employment percentage. Tell me you are like 3000 years old and out of touch with economy and the world as a whole without telling me. It's not related at all to my argument. My point is the megacorps (especially in the energy sector) are one of the major causes of the current surge of inflation, regardless of borrowing, (u…

> First of all, the Phillips curve, really? That's a flawed boomer way to correlate inflation and employment Economics 101 always starts from the basics. It is indeed the case that all things about the economy can get more complicated. But, when starting out from the beginning, it is important to learn the baseline foundations before moving on to more complicated special cases. Kind of like how in physics they start…

> If you agree that companies aren't just all deciding together to have layoffs at once, and it is instead a complicated result of interest rates (feel free to say it is the result of the models that come after the Philips Curve!), then I am glad to have moved you on your position.

The companies did all decide to have their layoffs at the same time frame, it's a fact, because that's what happened. You can claim they all acted in unison, because they all faced the same macroeconomic environment so they were bound to make the same decisions. And I agree, partially.

However, what I miss is the admission that the very same companies very much created the very same macroeconomic environment that now "forces them" to do the layoffs. They can't just simply claim it's the invisible hand of the market that makes them do what they do, and they are merely poor passive and unwilling participants. The whole idea of the free market is a funny one. There is no such thing as a "free market", there is already (not enough) a lot of governmental and financial institutions oversight, otherwise it all will collapse in days, just based on greed and speculation.

Let me ask:

- Who made them overhire?

- Who made them overborrow?

- Who led them to believe that free money is always going to be there?

- Who made them chase potential growth instead of financial soundness?

You can claim it's the market which caused all this, and that's partially right, but that kind of claim absolves their "leaders" of the responsibility for their lack of vision and foresight and putting their workers into unemployment, stagnating their wages, and having the ultimate effect of tanking the industry.

My claim is that the same way the poor corps were forced by the almighty market to let go of their workers en masse and stagnating their wages, the almighty market's conditions are forcing us, the employees, to band together in unions so we can counteract that. If you replace "market" with "corporate greed", in my statement, it's all the same to me, it's what I meant.

You can think that the robotic sameness with which they all played the same layoff playbook is due to it "being the logical thing to do at the time", but all I see is a bunch of stupid, amoral douches without any governmental scrutiny or oversight in search of a payout who wouldn't hesitate to use any opportunity for a buck.

And yes, most likely they didn't have a Machiavellian meeting in the dark, behind close doors to discuss how to trod on the working class. The banal truth is probably that once the insane manchild Musk started trashing Twitter, the other ones just followed suit, simply because it benefited them at the time.

This is still coordinated action from employers, and the best way to counteract that is government oversight, worker protection laws, and unions.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#272
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What in the world have you been reading to believe any of this? There were a whole lot of factors involved in the subprime crisis, partially free market and partially government. At it's core, the banks were taking on risky loans. Banks package and sell loans as investment vehicles and in order to get these loans off of their books they mixed the risky loans in with the safer ones to sell them. As they sold and passe…

> But the root cause was the risky loans in the first place.

AKA not enough regulation from the government to the business.

> As they sold and passed ratings approval from the institutions that were supposed to identify these risks for investors, other banks did the same in order to compete effectively because the free market incentivizes competition.

All I read here is that the government needs to regulate financial institutions more and to put some guardrails on investments. And that the market competition is a race to the bottom where you end up everybody selling garbage to the public in order to cut costs, and then tank the economy. Sounds about right.

> Similarly, if you look at the cost of higher education today it's entirely due to student loans. Supply of admissions at colleges remained relatively the same but demand was sky high. Normally increasing prices would slow demand, but the unlimited supply of student loan dollars allowed it to continually increase in price year over year. As prices go up, income goes up, compensation and construction increases and other institutions have to do exactly the same things to compete. So they do.

Thought patterns like that is why the US has inaccessible higher education, while the rest of us in the civilized world have pretty affordable one.

> I don't know what you have been reading to believe all that, but this is mathematical in its consistency. Yes, regulations are sometimes needed but 9/10 times when there is a financial issue aligned around skyrocketing costs it is due to government interference. Whether housing, healthcare, education or otherwise it's always the same.

This is the funniest take I've read in a while! You surely can't be serious. The US has arguably the worst healthcare system in the civilized world, it's the whole premise of shows like Breaking Bad and the butt of many jokes.

Don't know what copium you've been smoking, but every time when there is a financial crisis, it's caused by the cowboys in the free market getting greedy, lazy or downright stupid, and it's always the government and the taxpayer that has to bail them.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#273
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was Germany. I put the union in quotes because the direct translation is Works Council. I think that some software engineers in Germany are covered by the larger unions like IG Metall and Verdi, but my understanding is mostly for those that work in companies that make physical goods like Mercedes, Siemens, etc.

Notably a workers' council does not have power to negotiate compensation/raises. That's a major difference to a union.

Well ours does, so I wonder how they do it. It's a German workers council (Betriebsrat). Maybe they can negotiate but less in detail than a union?

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I have the choice of about 3 unions where I work, all of which are big unions because there can only be one per industry in Australia. All three have wasted way too much time and members' money on vanity projects that I don't want to join.

> there can only be one per industry in Australia That seems hostile and designed to enable corruption

Don't know about "designed to" but corruption and abuse of power is absolutely a consequence of this, indeed. Almost feel that this was designed to decredibilise unions (which are essential to democracy in my view) because they ended up strongly reassembling mafias: pretending to protect the people while actually only looking out for your own interests...

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#275

So all of the comments I've seen so far are (predictably) armchair snark from both sides of the political spectrum. Perhaps the reason for this is that there is a very conspicuous lack of information here. For all we _actually_ know, this could be a fake account posting a fake announcement to a fake twitter. 1. Why did the Fastmail employees decide to form a union? Were the working conditions poor? Was the pay below…

I really cannot believe that in good faith you missed all the comments which are not snarks. It's the overwhelming majority...

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> companies in the 30-50 employee mark, while it is true that I could speak to management almost any time, it was also obvious that they were very busy Sure. But if you had a grievance, you could voice it. And if you needed to pull some like-minded coworkers together to underline it's shared, that could be done ad hoc . If a 50-person company needs a union (because e.g. management refuses to listen) that's a problem.…

> But there is very obviously a point below which unionization is a sign of dysfunction. FWIW I don't think that's obvious at all. Even a small group of happy employees could form a union to set the current policies everyone is happy with in stone and protect themselves and future employees against potential changes in ownership or a downturn in company health.

> Even a small group of happy employees could form a union to set the current policies everyone is happy with in stone

I'm not arguing it couldn't be done, nor that it doesn't have benefits. Just that it has costs, and those costs at a small level should outweigh the benefits. While they're doing that, and maintaining that structure, they could be doing something else. (Something more enjoyable and lucrative.)

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#278
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has a duty to maintain human dignity, too.

That's a non sequitur, the existence or nonexistence of unions says nothing about human dignity.

"quit or stfu", not being able to meaningfully bargain at place of employment or anywhere else, is not dignified. If you got better solution for this than unions, fine, just say.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#279
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean that any competent CEO would oppose a union forming at their company because it will objectively be bad for the shareholders of that company. Any CEO who encouraged or did nothing to resist a union forming because of their own moral convictions would be breaching their duty to do what is best for their company. I would argue it would be grounds for firing them

This assumes facts not in evidence. Also doesn't seem to reflect a clear grasp of what fiduciary duty is.

Fiduciary duty is the requirement that the managers of a company act only in the best interest of that company and its owners. It would be clearly against the interests of the company and the shareholders to allow the employees to unionize

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not totally sure what argument you're making here. Say you're a professional making $100k per year, with a 1% chance per year of losing your job. A 50% unemployment insurance policy like I described in a private market should cost you a little over $500/yr. That still seems like a good deal to me, and probably to most people.

Your chance of losing your job is a lot more than 1%.

And life insurance is more expensive when you're 85 compared to 25. Do you understand how insurance works?
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