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Fastmail Employees Form a Union

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Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#251

Post by [deleted] »

ath3nd wrote: post #111
codemac wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is fastmail in your mind a megacorp? Most things you said do not seem to relate to a small company with ~400 people according to linkedin.

The megacorps created a situation in which thousands of people are jobless and with stagnating wages, while they hit record profits. What is stopping Fastmail to employ the playbook of the megacorps and do a couple of rounds of layoffs? Or to simply stagnate the wages of their employees, citing "bad economic headwinds"? Or to fire some high earners and replace them with cheaper ones from the huge pool of the qualifie…

[deleted]

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#252

Post by ath3nd »

stale2002 wrote: post #249
ath3nd wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The information is there for you to lookup. The Philips Curve is a well studied topic in mainstream economics. So my only theory is that you haven't studied the topic much. It's ok. Most people don't actually study econ 101. It's not too hard to pick though, and these basic topics are all covered!

First of all, the Phillips curve, really? That's a flawed boomer way to correlate inflation and employment percentage. Tell me you are like 3000 years old and out of touch with economy and the world as a whole without telling me. It's not related at all to my argument.

My point is the megacorps (especially in the energy sector) are one of the major causes of the current surge of inflation, regardless of borrowing, (un)employment or other macroeconomic factors. Below is some reading for you in an accessible format for your level of comprehension.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/08/excess-profits-of-big-firms-...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/27/corporate-p...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/apr/27/inflation-c...

https://www.epi.org/blog/corporate-profits-have-contributed-...

It's okay, you don't have to be well informed yourself if there are well informed people like me who can compile you some material to read in language understandable to you.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#253

Post by [deleted] »

ath3nd wrote: post #67
diob wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you can be certain the big heads of companies are unionizing / conspiring against you (meeting behind closed doors to keep wages down, not poach, fix prices / rent, etc.). It's fascinating how the lower class has been indoctrinated against them.

Yes, I can swear that we either have professional union busters among us, or people have been heavily indoctrinated to willingly take it from their corporate overlords. I simply can't believe why even the high paid workers like the software engineers that we are are okay with a single grandpa on the top to take millions or billions of profit while we slave our days and nights creating value for them. They are nothing…

[deleted]

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#255

Post by haolez »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #52
haolez wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are really powerful in corrupt and underdeveloped countries. Correlation is not causation, but still, it's frustrating for workers in those regions.

Like, Australia?

Brazil has more than 10 thousand unions. There is a union for union workers. Welcome to the underdeveloped world :)

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#256

Post by [deleted] »

ath3nd wrote: post #111
codemac wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is fastmail in your mind a megacorp? Most things you said do not seem to relate to a small company with ~400 people according to linkedin.

The megacorps created a situation in which thousands of people are jobless and with stagnating wages, while they hit record profits. What is stopping Fastmail to employ the playbook of the megacorps and do a couple of rounds of layoffs? Or to simply stagnate the wages of their employees, citing "bad economic headwinds"? Or to fire some high earners and replace them with cheaper ones from the huge pool of the qualifie…

[deleted]

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#257

Post by stale2002 »

ath3nd wrote: post #252
stale2002 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The information is there for you to lookup. The Philips Curve is a well studied topic in mainstream economics. So my only theory is that you haven't studied the topic much. It's ok. Most people don't actually study econ 101. It's not too hard to pick though, and these basic topics are all covered!

First of all, the Phillips curve, really? That's a flawed boomer way to correlate inflation and employment percentage. Tell me you are like 3000 years old and out of touch with economy and the world as a whole without telling me. It's not related at all to my argument. My point is the megacorps (especially in the energy sector) are one of the major causes of the current surge of inflation, regardless of borrowing, (u…

> First of all, the Phillips curve, really? That's a flawed boomer way to correlate inflation and employment

Economics 101 always starts from the basics.

It is indeed the case that all things about the economy can get more complicated.

But, when starting out from the beginning, it is important to learn the baseline foundations before moving on to more complicated special cases.

Kind of like how in physics they start you off with frictionless, spherical cows.

The same way of learning applies to economics as well.

Also, if is important to note how wildly different your statements are from what you were saying at the beginning.

If you agree that companies aren't just all deciding together to have layoffs at once, and it is instead a complicated result of interest rates (feel free to say it is the result of the models that come after the Philips Curve!), then I am glad to have moved you on your position.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#258

Post by felurx »

missedthecue wrote: post #172
shortrounddev2 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You know a company is morally bankrupt if they fight their employees unionizing Any company would oppose their employees unionizing; they have a fiduciary duty to do so

I think people just come at it from an odd point of view. Would trying to minimize AWS bills seem morally wrong to people? No, it wouldn't. But when you try to lower bills of other suppliers, say labor rather than compute, it is suddenly evil.

I'd say that's because reducing labor costs almost always directly affects the employees' quality of life.

This does not apply to reducing your material or compute bills. I can see how in the long run, a third-party making less money from you might affect their employees, but that's more of a long-term, weak and indirect effect.

Corporations aren't people, they don't need food, healthcare and happiness.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#259

Post by saghm »

keep_reading wrote: post #239
secretforest wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bron seems like a good CEO. He's come up through the ranks at FM, so hopefully he's fully onboard with the workers. I had an account when they first got off the ground, survived the Opera days, and built their little email empire. I followed Bron and RobN on Twitter and on blogs. If I lived in a place where there was an IT union like the Communications Workers of America union that covered IT people, I'd join. They a…

> so hopefully he's fully onboard with the workers If he was the union wouldn't be necessary, right?

Not necessarily; maybe it's worth it to establish the union during good times so that if/when bad times occur later (under a less-friendly CEO) they'll be ready?

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#260

Post by hightrix »

pseudalopex wrote: post #225
hightrix wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is hard for me to imagine a situation where I feel like I am being treated well at a company and then decide that I want to add another level of bureaucracy and additional fees by joining a union. Edit: to add, I am not at all opposed to unions. They provide a valuable service in many industries.

Is it hard to imagine collective bargaining improving pay and working conditions above minimum satisfaction? Is it hard to imagine anyone purchasing any type of insurance?

It is hard to imagine those things if I feel like I'm being treated very well already, including above market pay, excellent working conditions, and 100% of insurance premiums being covered by the company.

I can absolutely see the benefits of a union if I felt I was being paid below my worth, if I was dealing with poor work conditions, or had no company provided insurance.

Which is the point of this conversation, when things are bad, you REALLY want a union. When things are good, it's hard to see the value of a union.

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