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Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#331

Post by rezonant »

jwells89 wrote: post #208
turquoisevar wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not commenting about the ethics of all this, just wondering why technically Apple can only block ~5% of Beeper Mini users instead of all of them? Could this potentially be tied to the use of an email id as the iMessage handle? Apple could block 100% of the people using Beeper and throw Hackintosh users into that as a bonus as well. The reason they’re not doing that is because it could have unintended consequences a…

> The reason they’re not doing that is because it could have unintended consequences as some are using someone else’s actual device serial number and those people would be inconvenienced. One is supposed to try to find a plausible (follows certain rules) but invalid serial to use for hackintoshing and not use real serials, but of course in practice there’s always some number of careless users…

This is interesting. How do you define "invalid" and why can Apple not also detect such invalidity?

There's been some talk that blocking this for Beeper will also block this for Hackintosh, but are we just talking about iMessage?

Because I have a hard time believing that (A) Apple can't just block this for iMessage without affecting whatever other system services rely on it and (B) That Apple would care if Hackintoshes lose iMessage.

If those two are true, and assuming Beeper Mini also tries to find plausible but invalid serials to use, then Hackintoshes definitely aren't the reason they aren't blocking based on this.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#332

Post by tgma »

skeaker wrote: post #232
shreyansh_k wrote: post #31

This seems to be Beeper's insincere attempt at dressing up their grievances to appear as if they were in advantage of the [Apple's] customer. Apple has made it clear that they won't bring iMessage to Android. People who choose to invest in Android phones know they won't get access to iMessage. It seems a bit entitled behaviour for someone to feel like Apple should be forced to bring iMessage to Android for any reason…

How is being able to send iMessages to your Android-user friends from your iPhone not to your advantage as an Apple customer?

You’d be surprised how many people in the US have purely iPhone social circles. They won’t care.

The graph is almost disjoint. Outside tech nerds, android == poor.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#333

Post by rezonant »

mngdtt wrote: post #279
beeboobaa wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple could also push out an update tomorrow that would end this once and for all by utilizing device attestation and leveraging Secure Enclave More proof that Remote Attestation is evil and does not exist to serve the user.

As a user, I am very well served by remote attestation when it is used to stop cheaters in videogames or spammers in messaging platforms.

This assumes that all Beeper Mini users are spam, and that's a weird take.

More charitably, perhaps you are saying spam will increase over previous levels. From what I understand, Apple does not have any spam prevention technologies in Messages at all, neither for incoming iMessages, nor for SMS messages-- so the only thing keeping your iMessage conversations free of them is the obscurity of the protocol. Perhaps they should just add anti-spam tech like other texting clients have had for years.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#334

Post by [deleted] »

wrboyce wrote: post #307
tshirthoodie wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's iMessage implementation loses messages all the time. It happens about once every month between my girlfriend and I. I have also had iMesages be sent to the wrong recipient. In one ongoing case, my aunt and uncle frequently receive each other's iMessages, suggesting it's related to their group carrier plan but it's hard to say. The extended family all knows to use SMS instead, which reliably goes to the intend…

This has never, ever, happened to me and I have been using iMessage daily since its inception. I call shenanigans.

[deleted]

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#335

Post by SpaghettiCthulu »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #72
bastard_op wrote: post #59

Because of course they did, they like that children make fun of their peers that have a green message vs. a blue, and that's exactly what they want. They're like "ew, are you poor and can't afford a $1200 iphone?" It is now a petty, but prevalent status symbol of being better than others, namely perceived "poor" or otherwise lesser android users.

Android users have been banging this drum about the iPhone supremacists for an actual decade at this point and it so, so goddamn tiring. I buy iPhones for a number of reasons: - Ecosystem which has been explained at length so often you'd have to have your head under a rock to not know what it means - Ease of transfer of data between phones/tablets and replacements, along with constant sync - Excellent build quality -…

> - Excellent build quality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS0SItAzEXg

Keep drinking your kool-aid.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#336

Post by makeitdouble »

unstatusthequo wrote: post #327
rezonant wrote: post #313

I think this is kinda technically a win for Beeper. I would've expected another 100% lockout to be Apple's priority. They were instead only able to block 5%, which sounds like a heuristic being applied, and possibly not even an intentional block of Beeper (in the sense that some anti-spam service may be identifying some Beeper users). They can certainly escalate with protocol changes, but they still have to contend w…

Apple owns the delivery mechanism. I don’t believe that a third party using their ecosystem will last long. Nor do I want it. There are plenty of cross-platform things out there. Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp. Why does everyone care so much? Google can paint their Android robot blue. Then maybe all this silliness will end?

> Nor do I want it

> Why does everyone care so much?

You seem to both care about it, and also wonder why other people care about it ?

Otherwise, looking from the sideline it's fascinating seeing Apple fighting this battle that they brought upon themselves and have no chance of winning.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#337

Post by rezonant »

unstatusthequo wrote: post #327
rezonant wrote: post #313

I think this is kinda technically a win for Beeper. I would've expected another 100% lockout to be Apple's priority. They were instead only able to block 5%, which sounds like a heuristic being applied, and possibly not even an intentional block of Beeper (in the sense that some anti-spam service may be identifying some Beeper users). They can certainly escalate with protocol changes, but they still have to contend w…

Apple owns the delivery mechanism. I don’t believe that a third party using their ecosystem will last long. Nor do I want it. There are plenty of cross-platform things out there. Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp. Why does everyone care so much? Google can paint their Android robot blue. Then maybe all this silliness will end?

Because Apple embraced texting by supporting SMS, then extended it by forcing all the text conversations that they could into their own proprietary infrastructure, and is extinguishing it by using punitive product design to create pressure on communities of people to all use their products so that everything goes over their proprietary network.

I don't want an over the top chat app, I just want to text people.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#338

Post by wrboyce »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #173
ck425 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. In UK it was common (and still has I think?) for contracts/deals to include lots of free SMS texts but even then most people have readily moved to WhatsApp, Messenger etc. In my mind texts quickly became like voicemails, something older people would use cause that's what they know but not something I'd want to use regularly if given the option.

Part of the reason UK switched over quickly is because of much higher international texting needs which these apps also neatly solve. Your average American just straight up does not need international messaging capability

I’d find this surprising! I’m probably the only person I know who frequently messages (via iMessage nonetheless) with foreign contacts. In addition I’m pretty sure cross-state comms in the USA are treated like international comms are in Europe but I could well be wrong on this point (and as per xkcd[1] I’m sure we’ll find out soon if I am)!

[1] https://xkcd.com/386/

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#339

Post by DeIlliad »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #315
shreyansh_k wrote: post #31

This seems to be Beeper's insincere attempt at dressing up their grievances to appear as if they were in advantage of the [Apple's] customer. Apple has made it clear that they won't bring iMessage to Android. People who choose to invest in Android phones know they won't get access to iMessage. It seems a bit entitled behaviour for someone to feel like Apple should be forced to bring iMessage to Android for any reason…

> It seems a bit entitled behaviour What's entitled behavior is big tech thinking it can dictate how and where we use technology and services. Why should we be roped into serving Apple's interests and ignoring own own? Beeper can pursue their own interests while benefiting users, that's hardly a negative. I'm sure if Ford dictated how and where you drove your car you'd be outraged, but we should kowtow to the likes o…

> I'm sure if Ford dictated how and where you drove your car you'd be outraged, but we should kowtow to the likes of Apple?

I just wouldn't buy a Ford.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#340

Post by maxcoder4 »

SpaghettiCthulu wrote: post #316
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple has customers who want to use iMessage. Those customers are not able to use iMessage to securely communicate with Android users Of course they do. There's Signal and Telegram and WhatsApp. My principal benefit of iMessage is its relative lack of spam. (And when I do get spam, it gets stomped out fast.) Apple Music blitzkrieging Spotify is bullshit. The lock on subscription payments is bullshit. I happen to th…

I am at a loss on this "spam" argument. I haven't received a single spam message on either SMS or Signal in the at least last year.

Same experience with signal, but SMS phishing is a very large issue, at least in my country. Maybe your phone number was just never leaked and you're not present in the spammers databases?
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