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Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#51

Post by mminer237 »

thot_experiment wrote: post #15

Is it common for people to use texts in 2023 in your social circle? I think I've been texted once this year. I mean obviously people care about this to some extent otherwise this app wouldn't exist but in my experience when I meet someone they'll give me insta or discord, unless they're a tryhard and then it's always signal (blegh). EDIT: not sure i'm being downvoted? i'm genuinely curious because i never use SMS or…

I'm 28, and texting is the primary method of communication for virtually everyone I know. The only exceptions are that I know two techy people who use Google Chat and a few people who use Facebook Messenger (mostly because they don't have my number). I've never met a single person in my life who uses Instagram, Discord, or Signal for 1-to-1 messaging.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#52

Post by heywire »

thot_experiment wrote: post #15

Is it common for people to use texts in 2023 in your social circle? I think I've been texted once this year. I mean obviously people care about this to some extent otherwise this app wouldn't exist but in my experience when I meet someone they'll give me insta or discord, unless they're a tryhard and then it's always signal (blegh). EDIT: not sure i'm being downvoted? i'm genuinely curious because i never use SMS or…

Almost 100% of my chat messages are through iMessage. The only ones that aren’t are group or individual threads with Android users (which btw have never seemed to be an issue. Reactions and gifs all seem to work fine, albeit in reduced quality compared to messages received via iMessage). Every once in a while someone will message me on Facebook, but that’s usually just to share a funny meme or something. I don’t have WhatsApp, signal, telegram, or any of those even installed.

40’s, male, Ohio, software engineer, for reference.

ETA: this doesn’t count work, where we use teams and slack, but I don’t have those loaded on my phone.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#53

Post by lotsofpulp »

wishfish wrote: post #13
nocoiner wrote: post #4

Beeper CEO, from the article: "If there's enough pressure on Apple, they will have to quit messing with us." "Us," he clarified, meant both Apple's customers using iMessage and Android users trying to chat securely with iPhone friends. "That's who they're penalizing," he wrote. "It's not a Beeper vs. Apple fight, it's Apple versus customers." Not really sure how this is anti-customer. Apple customers have ample acces…

Speaking as an Apple customer, there are many times I wish iMessage was more open. My partner and some friends prefer Android. Would be great to use Messages with them. Plus, I'd love to have Messages on whatever desktop I'm using. Sure, I spend the majority of my time in MacOS. But, I've got Windows, Linux, and Chromebooks here in the house. Would be so much more convenient to have Messages on all platforms.

What is stopping you from using Whatsapp/Signal?

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#54

Post by smallerfish »

qeternity wrote: post #35
echelon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple customers have ample access to iMessage, after all. It's not really fair that Apple gets to build snares around owning the most successful and important platform in modern civilization. This isn't an automobile where there are 50 alternative manufacturers, this is the "everything" device that handles your bills, employment, connections to loved ones, etc. And there's only one other choice of vendor in the Uni…

> This isn't an automobile where there are 50 alternative manufacturers No, it’s exactly this. There are a ton of manufacturers all providing this product. It just so happens that Apple’s is one of the best, if not the best. And as has been mentioned, there are tons of secure messaging alternatives. It’s just that people prefer iMessage. This is not illegal or anticompetitive. Imagine if someone claimed they should b…

[flagged]

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#55

Post by jiggawatts »

The fundamental issue is that there are no readily-available iPhone emulators that can send iMessages, and this is a good thing that people pay for.

The benefit of the Apple walled garden is that the spammers are kept out, because they can't get fifty SIM cards, plug them in to a "SIM box"[1], and start sending hundreds of thousands of scam messages via iMessage. This is easy in an uncontrolled, open-source ecosystem, but is prohibitively difficult in Apple's ecosystem where you need a physical device with a unique cryptographic ID that can be locked out by a central authority.

Yes, it's an "exclusive club" where members pay to keep the general public out. The general public doesn't like this, but that is what it is. Inherently, allowing "anyone" in would void the exclusivity and invite an unrelenting flood of spam.

At best, Apple could open up iMessage to other vendors that have similarly well-controlled devices with good hardware cryptographic attestation, but there aren't any.

[1] https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/sydney-man-charged-with-...

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#56

Post by joshmanders »

user_7832 wrote: post #50
joshmanders wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure I do too, but I'm against this ridiculous notion that Apple MUST allow others to integrate and use their services for free. My point is nobody has any problem with the myriad of other messaging platforms that are completely closed, but all of the sudden iMessage is the bad guy because you don't want to have a green bubble with iPhone users?

I don't think anyone's saying apple must allow them (though such people admittedly exist on the internet, in retrospect). I think its more of disappointment at the speed at which apple is "patching" this.

As an Apple user, I'm glad they're patching this fast. It's a security issue and privacy one. Sure Beeper may be using it in a non-nefarious way, that doesn't mean bad actors aren't gonna use this to spam the heck out of iMessage users.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#57

Post by sbuk »

echelon wrote: post #9
nocoiner wrote: post #4

Beeper CEO, from the article: "If there's enough pressure on Apple, they will have to quit messing with us." "Us," he clarified, meant both Apple's customers using iMessage and Android users trying to chat securely with iPhone friends. "That's who they're penalizing," he wrote. "It's not a Beeper vs. Apple fight, it's Apple versus customers." Not really sure how this is anti-customer. Apple customers have ample acces…

> Apple customers have ample access to iMessage, after all. It's not really fair that Apple gets to build snares around owning the most successful and important platform in modern civilization. This isn't an automobile where there are 50 alternative manufacturers, this is the "everything" device that handles your bills, employment, connections to loved ones, etc. And there's only one other choice of vendor in the Uni…

> One of the first rulings from antitrust I would expect is non-proprietary messaging protocols.

So not sideloading or App Store Alternatives, or setting a limit of the App Store fees, or advertising alternative payments?

(edit: I'm not suggesting any of there are or are not valid reason, just that it's laughable to suggest that messaging will be at, or near the top of the list. Especially from a 5 Eyes government!)

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#58

Post by shreyansh_k »

user_7832 wrote: post #37
shreyansh_k wrote: post #31

This seems to be Beeper's insincere attempt at dressing up their grievances to appear as if they were in advantage of the [Apple's] customer. Apple has made it clear that they won't bring iMessage to Android. People who choose to invest in Android phones know they won't get access to iMessage. It seems a bit entitled behaviour for someone to feel like Apple should be forced to bring iMessage to Android for any reason…

> It seems a bit entitled behaviour for someone to feel like Apple should be forced to bring iMessage to Android for any reason besides Apple's own choice, and that they know better than Apple on how to run Apple's business. It is simultaneously possible for it to appear entitled, while also recognizing how extremely restrictive, anti consumer and anti competition Apple is. And in this fight of a trillion dollar comp…

It can be agreeable to an extend that Apple seem like an extremely restrictive, anti consumer and anti competition. But, the other side (Android), which has been positioned open, pro-consumer and pro-competition doesn't seem to be true to its roots or any better anyways. Android is mostly dominated by Samsung and Samsung is heavily pushing their own ecosystem of apps, just like every other company, and most brands want to lock in their users too.

It's a sad state of affairs.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#59

Post by bastard_op »

Because of course they did, they like that children make fun of their peers that have a green message vs. a blue, and that's exactly what they want. They're like "ew, are you poor and can't afford a $1200 iphone?"

It is now a petty, but prevalent status symbol of being better than others, namely perceived "poor" or otherwise lesser android users.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#60

Post by joshmanders »

dataangel wrote: post #39
shreyansh_k wrote: post #31

This seems to be Beeper's insincere attempt at dressing up their grievances to appear as if they were in advantage of the [Apple's] customer. Apple has made it clear that they won't bring iMessage to Android. People who choose to invest in Android phones know they won't get access to iMessage. It seems a bit entitled behaviour for someone to feel like Apple should be forced to bring iMessage to Android for any reason…

It's not entitled, it's pushing back against a gigantic company exploiting network effects to create user lock-in, because that's easier than competing on the merit of your products.

Now apply this logic to any other company product, maybe even your own or the company you work for and tell me if this sounds as ridiculous to you as it does me.
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