[flagged]
What are they stealing?
Theft of services, since Apple owns and maintains the iMessage system that Beeper is trying to use without compensating them (despite charging their own users for that access).
Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
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Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's how I view it as well, this is a security issue. Beeper is gaining unauthorized access to a service and Apple doesn't like it. The fact that they are not technically breaking anything is kind of like going into a business after hours because the door wasn't locked. You still aren't authorized to be there.
The better analogy is using a fake ID to get the locksmith to give you a copy of the house key. The house is Apple’s servers The fake ID is spoofed device serials and UUIDs The copy of the house key is the authentication blob Nobody would blink twice if a prosecutor threw the book at someone like that. Still, somehow, I’m sure many here would complain if the DOJ would prosecute Beeper for violating the CFAA by commit…
The analogy is off in a meaningful way: you're using a "fake ID" to get the locksmith to give you a copy of your own house key because the locksmith won't accept your real ID. No prosecutor is going to throw the book at someone trying to access their own house.
Apple claims I'm in control of my messages. They're on my devices. Apple refuses access to Android. Why can't I use technology to make my messages work on Android? They're my messages!
You might respond that this impacts someone else. For example, me using Beeper means that anyone messaging me is impacted. My counterpoint is that the user is always the weakest link. I can share messages sent to me with anyone I like, and that's legally fine to do. So why can't they be shared with a different software service that I trust? (People use all kinds of 3rd party email clients which could be untrustworthy, and yet we still mostly trust email.)
Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
#113Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think anyone's saying apple must allow them (though such people admittedly exist on the internet, in retrospect). I think its more of disappointment at the speed at which apple is "patching" this.
As an Apple user, I'm glad they're patching this fast. It's a security issue and privacy one. Sure Beeper may be using it in a non-nefarious way, that doesn't mean bad actors aren't gonna use this to spam the heck out of iMessage users.
I've been getting iMessage spam long before Beeper existed.
Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
#115[flagged]
What are they stealing?
Profits.
By allowing Android Apple communication, Apple has potential "loses" as they loose their lock in ability of forcing people buying a new iPhone for Christmas.
iPhone $800, Android $200. If an Android can do what iPhone can do on the messaging front there's no purpose in buying an iPhone.
Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
#116Is it common for people to use texts in 2023 in your social circle? I think I've been texted once this year. I mean obviously people care about this to some extent otherwise this app wouldn't exist but in my experience when I meet someone they'll give me insta or discord, unless they're a tryhard and then it's always signal (blegh). EDIT: not sure i'm being downvoted? i'm genuinely curious because i never use SMS or…
SMS is very popular in the US for historical reasons. Many users in other countries (like India) moved to products like Whatsapp because their cell phone plans charged per message but US phone plans have had free SMS pricing for years so we've never had a push here. iPhone is market leader in the US so iMessageis also heavily used since its default for SMS between iOS users.
Interesting. In UK it was common (and still has I think?) for contracts/deals to include lots of free SMS texts but even then most people have readily moved to WhatsApp, Messenger etc.
In my mind texts quickly became like voicemails, something older people would use cause that's what they know but not something I'd want to use regularly if given the option.
Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
#117I miss the days when chat wasn't fragmented across apps and platforms or could at least be unified in apps like Adium. Having to have a different app installed for myriad different contacts is, at best, irritating.
I’m baffled as to when this time was? Back in the day there was ICQ, Yahoo Chat, MSN Messenger (and no doubt a dozen I forget).
Before the there there the proprietary networks (Aol, CompuServe and others) along with BBS, IRC, Newsgroups, etc.
I literally don’t remember a time in my life where messaging hasn’t been fragmented.
Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s also entirely USA centric and a byproduct of everyone sticking to SMS-phone number systems to chat. It drives me nuts. WhatsApp. WeChat. Line. Kakao. Facebook Messenger. Most of the world has switched to these dedicated apps. Only glimmer of hope is that gen-z/gen-alpha is really into Discord (at least all the ones I know). Might finally bring down the iMessage group chats.
This whole “controversy” is because of Americans collectively stamping their feet and throwing a tantrum refusing to install WhatsApp or Signal. It’s really quite incredible. But I share your view about Discord, I think it’s one app positioned to be the “American WeChat” in a few years if they don’t screw it up.
> I think it’s one app positioned to be the “American WeChat” in a few years if they don’t screw it up.
Yeah, not going to happen. Discord is turning in to a dog and pony show.
Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
#119I miss the days when chat wasn't fragmented across apps and platforms or could at least be unified in apps like Adium. Having to have a different app installed for myriad different contacts is, at best, irritating.
I’m baffled as to when this time was? Back in the day there was ICQ, Yahoo Chat, MSN Messenger (and no doubt a dozen I forget). Before the there there the proprietary networks (Aol, CompuServe and others) along with BBS, IRC, Newsgroups, etc. I literally don’t remember a time in my life where messaging hasn’t been fragmented.
2001, when Adium launched. It pretty much had every messaging app that anyone was on.
I used it exclusively for years. It supported all those things (or I should say if someone had multiple ways to get to them, Adium supported at least one of them).
Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
#120I miss the days when chat wasn't fragmented across apps and platforms or could at least be unified in apps like Adium. Having to have a different app installed for myriad different contacts is, at best, irritating.
I’m baffled as to when this time was? Back in the day there was ICQ, Yahoo Chat, MSN Messenger (and no doubt a dozen I forget). Before the there there the proprietary networks (Aol, CompuServe and others) along with BBS, IRC, Newsgroups, etc. I literally don’t remember a time in my life where messaging hasn’t been fragmented.
A brief period (~2008-2015) when XMPP had momentum and federation was trendy, if incomplete.
Apps like Trillian, Pidgin (Gaim), Adium actually allowed chatting across many platforms on the client side. To some extent they still can, with add-ons.