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Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#81

>Apple on Wednesday appeared to have blocked what Beeper described as "~5% of Beeper Mini users" from accessing iMessages >Apple previously issued a (somewhat uncommon) statement about Beeper's iMessage access, stating that it "took steps to protect our users by blocking techniques that exploit fake credentials in order to gain access to iMessage." Citing privacy, security, and spam concerns, Apple stated it would "c…

> Not commenting about the ethics of all this, just wondering why technically Apple can only block ~5% of Beeper Mini users instead of all of them? Could this potentially be tied to the use of an email id as the iMessage handle?

Apple could block 100% of the people using Beeper and throw Hackintosh users into that as a bonus as well.

The reason they’re not doing that is because it could have unintended consequences as some are using someone else’s actual device serial number and those people would be inconvenienced.

It’s nothing that can’t be easily solved, the moment they reach out to support either in person or via phone/chat Apple can immediately verify if they’re using a legitimate Apple device, but even if it boils down to a small percentage of users you still need to prepare for the influx of support requests.

To do this, Apple uses a scoring model to determine if they can access iMessage and historically they’ve been pretty generous by allowing clearly spoofed serials if the Apple ID involved is in good standing and has a positive history, think of it as a credit score. They can tweak the threshold score and probably are testing this out as we speak to find a sweet spot they’re content with.

Apple could also push out an update tomorrow that would end this once and for all by utilizing device attestation and leveraging Secure Enclave, but this would potentially lock out older devices, something they were willing to do when they upgraded the FaceTime protocol a couple of years ago, but they might not want to do that this time around.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#82
post #42

I miss the days when chat wasn't fragmented across apps and platforms or could at least be unified in apps like Adium. Having to have a different app installed for myriad different contacts is, at best, irritating.

IIRC that is the original goal of beeper, to act as a universal messenger front end

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#83

>Apple on Wednesday appeared to have blocked what Beeper described as "~5% of Beeper Mini users" from accessing iMessages >Apple previously issued a (somewhat uncommon) statement about Beeper's iMessage access, stating that it "took steps to protect our users by blocking techniques that exploit fake credentials in order to gain access to iMessage." Citing privacy, security, and spam concerns, Apple stated it would "c…

Might be intentional. Unreliable service is probably worse as a user. Never know if the system is down or if it’s just you. Plus probably harder for beeper to work out how/why they are getting blocked.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not entitled, it's pushing back against a gigantic company exploiting network effects to create user lock-in, because that's easier than competing on the merit of your products.

Now apply this logic to any other company product, maybe even your own or the company you work for and tell me if this sounds as ridiculous to you as it does me.

Most companies don't have network effect with lock-in, and especially those we depend to live our everyday lives: I can send money to my buddy who uses a different bank, I can send emails to gmail users from my yahoo account , I can also refuel my car at any station and not be tied to one brand. Imagine being locked in to any of those.

There are of course a lot of companies with lock-in out there, but none with such big network effect deeply intertwined with peoples' communication and personal lives (in the US).

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brand new iPhones have been available for $430 on apple.com for many years now. And most young minimum wage employees with very little money and no "status" also use iPhones. It is not a signal of poor/status, it is a signal of weird/not weird, without commenting on the validity of that, of course. For example, people do not opt out of dating Android users because they think Android users are poor, they opt out becau…

That’s also entirely USA centric and a byproduct of everyone sticking to SMS-phone number systems to chat. It drives me nuts. WhatsApp. WeChat. Line. Kakao. Facebook Messenger. Most of the world has switched to these dedicated apps. Only glimmer of hope is that gen-z/gen-alpha is really into Discord (at least all the ones I know). Might finally bring down the iMessage group chats.

Discord is actually an interesting analogy because they share apple’s overall philosophy here. Discord doesn’t absolutely firewall themselves with attestation/etc but they will absolutely ban you for using alternative clients like Discord Advanced if they notice you behaving differently from an official client on the API. Some of the things the discord advanced client can do like animated smilies or cross-server smilies are things that discord has locked away behind a paywall (with no real technical basis) and that’s in conflict with how a small minority of users want to interact with the platform.

Should discord be forced to interoperate? Bearing in mind that of course forcing them open will undercut their whole business model - but that whole model is built on gouging consumers for trivial technical features that cost nothing to implement or support.

Similarly, while there is choice in the market (just like apple and android), it still doesn’t change the network-effect problem. If my friends are on discord, and I’m left in some group sms side chat, that’s not really a substitute, right?

Now layer on 30 years of brand warrior sports-team mentality and abrasive interactions in both directions, and you’ve roughly got the iMessage problem. But of course everyone likes discord…

I mean why shouldn’t I get to use discord for free like everyone else? And I also should get the paywalled features since it’s an arbitrary and abusive paywall and the environment has been designed to tacitly funnel you into using them. Isn’t that like, super abusive?

But we like discord…

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#87
post #71

[flagged]

>t’s really interesting that so many people are defending a corporation stealing from another company

Boo-hoo, let me play you the world's smallest violin for Apple's "suffering". Apple is the richest company in the world, it has more money than God, they can fend for themselves just fine, why should anyone shed a tear that someone is stealing from them?

People are defending others stealing from Apple because Apple has a history of stealing from other companies and developers as well, so it's just karma.

Though you'll have to enlighten me what exactly it is they are stealing from Apple since Apple doesn't charge money for iMessage for there to be any theft or loss of revenue for them. Unless your definition of theft is "YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CAR?!"

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#89

This seems to be Beeper's insincere attempt at dressing up their grievances to appear as if they were in advantage of the [Apple's] customer. Apple has made it clear that they won't bring iMessage to Android. People who choose to invest in Android phones know they won't get access to iMessage. It seems a bit entitled behaviour for someone to feel like Apple should be forced to bring iMessage to Android for any reason…

> to appear as if they were in advantage of the [Apple's] customer

They are. This was perfectly normal and expected functionality once upon a time, back in the days when Adium/Pidgin were still useful.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#90
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s also entirely USA centric and a byproduct of everyone sticking to SMS-phone number systems to chat. It drives me nuts. WhatsApp. WeChat. Line. Kakao. Facebook Messenger. Most of the world has switched to these dedicated apps. Only glimmer of hope is that gen-z/gen-alpha is really into Discord (at least all the ones I know). Might finally bring down the iMessage group chats.

Discord is actually an interesting analogy because they share apple’s overall philosophy here. Discord doesn’t absolutely firewall themselves with attestation/etc but they will absolutely ban you for using alternative clients like Discord Advanced if they notice you behaving differently from an official client on the API. Some of the things the discord advanced client can do like animated smilies or cross-server smil…

I don't think many people actually like discord, they just feel compelled to use it because their friends use it
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