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Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#61

Post by sbuk »

user_7832 wrote: post #41
joshmanders wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple has customers who want to use iMessage. Those customers are not able to use iMessage to securely communicate with Android users. I as a Signal user want to communicate securely with Facebook Messenger users. Therefore Facebook must allow me to reverse engineer their services and make unauthorized systems to allow me to create a service to send messages to Messenger users from Signal.

I think calls for interoperable communication platforms is a good thing!

And they exist. A lot of them, actually.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#62

Post by lapinot »

cdme wrote: post #42

I miss the days when chat wasn't fragmented across apps and platforms or could at least be unified in apps like Adium. Having to have a different app installed for myriad different contacts is, at best, irritating.

Couldn't you have said "compartmentalized", or "dominated by hostile silos" or anything else that doesn't involve comparison of the state of online chatting with wars that have killed humans? I agree things were nice with adium.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#63

Post by lotsofpulp »

bastard_op wrote: post #59

Because of course they did, they like that children make fun of their peers that have a green message vs. a blue, and that's exactly what they want. They're like "ew, are you poor and can't afford a $1200 iphone?" It is now a petty, but prevalent status symbol of being better than others, namely perceived "poor" or otherwise lesser android users.

Brand new iPhones have been available for $430 on apple.com for many years now.

And most young minimum wage employees with very little money and no "status" also use iPhones.

It is not a signal of poor/status, it is a signal of weird/not weird, without commenting on the validity of that, of course.

For example, people do not opt out of dating Android users because they think Android users are poor, they opt out because they think Android users have a higher likelihood of being sufficiently "weird" such that they do not want to engage.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#64

Post by quartesixte »

bastard_op wrote: post #59

Because of course they did, they like that children make fun of their peers that have a green message vs. a blue, and that's exactly what they want. They're like "ew, are you poor and can't afford a $1200 iphone?" It is now a petty, but prevalent status symbol of being better than others, namely perceived "poor" or otherwise lesser android users.

>namely perceived ”poor”

This is particularly bonkers to me given how expensive Samsung flagships are, but I guess Android occupying the sub-$600 range really enforces in children (physical or mental) that Android = Poor

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#65

Post by dann0 »

bastard_op wrote: post #59

Because of course they did, they like that children make fun of their peers that have a green message vs. a blue, and that's exactly what they want. They're like "ew, are you poor and can't afford a $1200 iphone?" It is now a petty, but prevalent status symbol of being better than others, namely perceived "poor" or otherwise lesser android users.

Did you just unironically use a “would someone think of the children?” argument?

Of all the interesting points in this situation, this is not even close to being relevant

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#66

Post by sbuk »

lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #29
aesh2Xa1 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has customers who want to use iMessage. Those customers are not able to use iMessage to securely communicate with Android users. That's pretty clear. If Apple's customers want to be able to use iMessage for such communications then (1) the Android user buys an Apple product, (2) a third party makes a cross-platform iMessage client, or (3) Apple open iMessage to other platforms. Apple is blocking on (2) and (3).

> Those customers are not able to use iMessage to securely communicate with Android users. Well, they can't now as a result of blocking Beeper. But they could — using Beeper. It's one thing to argue that you won't open the platform because it's additional work to support that. But that argument degrades when they're willing to do the work to shut out unexpected uses of the platform. If they want to ensure safety, the…

> "But that argument degrades when they're willing to do the work to shut out unexpected uses of the platform."

Or, as many in software engineering call it, fixing potential security holes, which is well worth any businesses time.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#67

Post by I_Am_Nous »

NettleBurr wrote: post #28

>Apple on Wednesday appeared to have blocked what Beeper described as "~5% of Beeper Mini users" from accessing iMessages >Apple previously issued a (somewhat uncommon) statement about Beeper's iMessage access, stating that it "took steps to protect our users by blocking techniques that exploit fake credentials in order to gain access to iMessage." Citing privacy, security, and spam concerns, Apple stated it would "c…

Seems like a chess move. Apple blocks a small percentage of users instead of all of them, which casts uncertainty on using Beeper Mini at all. It also allows them to A/B test various methods of blocking or honeypotting Beeper Mini logins without giving away any big secrets.

From Beeper's perspective, they now have to figure out why only those logins were blocked and if they need to patch something or not. Apple could be wasting their time and blocked random users out of spite.

Time will tell.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#68

Post by joshmanders »

i5-2520M wrote: post #20
nocoiner wrote: post #4

Beeper CEO, from the article: "If there's enough pressure on Apple, they will have to quit messing with us." "Us," he clarified, meant both Apple's customers using iMessage and Android users trying to chat securely with iPhone friends. "That's who they're penalizing," he wrote. "It's not a Beeper vs. Apple fight, it's Apple versus customers." Not really sure how this is anti-customer. Apple customers have ample acces…

I have seen comments from iMessage users, and it is also logical to assume that they would prefer if there was a way to chat with their Android friends via iMessage while having most of the nice features. An Android iMessage app would only be bad for Apple, since they will no longer be able retain and convert users based on them being or not being able to comfortably message their friends.

As an Apple customer here's my thoughts on this:

1. Yes I would love if iMessage went Android and all my Android friends were able to react, thread convos, and all the other perks that iMessage allows, BUT the color of the message doesn't matter to me. I'm ok with the green bubbles too.

2. If iMessages was available on Android, I and every iPhone user I know wouldn't be like "finally, I can leave Apple!" iMessage is a perk not the main draw. The wider ecosystem and walled garden that non-Apple users apparently hate so much is not-surprisingly lovely to those of us all in on it.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#69

Post by quartesixte »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #63
bastard_op wrote: post #59

Because of course they did, they like that children make fun of their peers that have a green message vs. a blue, and that's exactly what they want. They're like "ew, are you poor and can't afford a $1200 iphone?" It is now a petty, but prevalent status symbol of being better than others, namely perceived "poor" or otherwise lesser android users.

Brand new iPhones have been available for $430 on apple.com for many years now. And most young minimum wage employees with very little money and no "status" also use iPhones. It is not a signal of poor/status, it is a signal of weird/not weird, without commenting on the validity of that, of course. For example, people do not opt out of dating Android users because they think Android users are poor, they opt out becau…

That’s also entirely USA centric and a byproduct of everyone sticking to SMS-phone number systems to chat. It drives me nuts.

WhatsApp. WeChat. Line. Kakao. Facebook Messenger. Most of the world has switched to these dedicated apps.

Only glimmer of hope is that gen-z/gen-alpha is really into Discord (at least all the ones I know). Might finally bring down the iMessage group chats.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#70

Post by sbuk »

dann0 wrote: post #65
bastard_op wrote: post #59

Because of course they did, they like that children make fun of their peers that have a green message vs. a blue, and that's exactly what they want. They're like "ew, are you poor and can't afford a $1200 iphone?" It is now a petty, but prevalent status symbol of being better than others, namely perceived "poor" or otherwise lesser android users.

Did you just unironically use a “would someone think of the children?” argument? Of all the interesting points in this situation, this is not even close to being relevant

The whole green-bubble debate is essentially an appeal to emotion...
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