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Australia to ban engineered stone

abc.net.au

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Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#491

Post by xxs »

rbanffy wrote: post #412
newaccount74 wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that nobody tries to cut granite on site with an angle grinder. It's so difficult because the material is so hard. Granite countertops are typically cut off-site with a waterjet, which creates zero dust.

I wonder why those parts are not made in the desired shape already with no need to cut or sand in place.

No perfect walls (also changes w/ temperature/humidity), drilling holes, misalignment, imperfect measurements...

Since it's a luxury but not a super expensive product, the more expensive process of precise measurement, off-site waterjet/laser cutting is not suitable.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#492

Post by xxs »

gruez wrote: post #97
dboreham wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly the issue is more to do with the lower cost of the engineered material? Like, when tobacco cost a megabuck per oz in Queen Elizabeth times people smoked a pipe once in a while and in the context of their high exposure to fireplace smoke it was no big deal. Fast forward to when cigarettes cost 10c/pack and the marketing guys are selling them to 8 year olds...now it's a huge health problem.

That just seems like a policy that punishes the poor. It's like banning commercial flights for greenhouse gas reasons but letting private jets fly.

>poor

it's a luxury product, far from the cheapest countertop options.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#493

Post by Hikikomori »

kristofferR wrote: post #419
Hikikomori wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the risk of asbestos exposure when you work in construction as low as someone that doesn't?

Depends on your job - new construction shouldn't have anything to do with asbestos at all, but if you work on/demolish old buildings you might. The only reason asbestos is becoming less and less deadly is that we banned it decades ago.

Why are averages relevant when these workers are not getting an average exposure to these materials?

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#494

Post by smileysteve »

I recently had some countertops redone with a engineered quartz (and recycled glass and shell) veneer; The base was thick MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard).

This solves a few things

1. Significantly reduces stone transportation (import, from shop to location)

2. Reduces stone cutting (at 1/8" thickness, much quicker, easier to cut than 2" slab) (easier to fit in tight places, easier to fix with epoxy filler.

3. Reduces waste if and when it is shipped off.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#495

Post by oooyay »

Doxin wrote: post #316
schneems wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with “always wear a p100” is that they’re not comfortable in an unventilated uncooled house which is where a lot of construction happens. If everyone is wearing one you also need to take more breaks which eats into time to do the job. The industry is set up so you only get paid for doing the job. If doing it unsafely means doing it faster or being more comfortable then a lot of small time contractors will…

For comfort you'd probably want to get a positive air pressure mask. Those things are wildly underrated. Can even stick on a volatiles filter when relevant.

This is what I wear for carpentry/wood working. It's almost identical to the mask I wore in the military for CBRN just different filters and far lighter. Suggestion to look for masks that have larger outter and inner seals if you have glasses or low cut facial hair/stubble respectively as they'll continue to seal.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#496

Post by alvah »

linsomniac wrote: post #472
alvah wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take things that never happened for $500, linsomniac

I'm struggling to figure out why it would seem so implausible. I got the phrasing from AvE on youtube, and I've said it to him several times during our DIYing together because I'm trying to educate him on using PPE.

You phrased it exactly like the many stories posted on social media that end with a young kid expressing virtue in the words of an adult. You have other skeptical replies, so it’s not just me.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#497

Post by newaccount74 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #468
newaccount74 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really that hard to understand PPE requirements. Is it dusty? Wear a mask. Is it loud? Hearing protection. And everyone should wear shoes with steel caps. If you see someone with a bandana over their mouth in sandals you know they are unsafe. They know it too. This is not something that is difficult to understand.

And then what? The customer takes pictures and reports them to the government? Fires them? What if there is a dispute, the laborer takes the customer to court for false claims? Who polices the customer? The logistics of making everyone a cop make no sense to me.

You are overthinking it.

If you see your contractor not using PPE, you just tell them to put it on. Just like you'd tell him to do it properly if you saw him cutting corners somewhere else.

Contractors want to get paid, so they generally tend to do what the person paying the bill asks them to do.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#498

Post by [deleted] »

newaccount74 wrote: post #497
lotsofpulp wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then what? The customer takes pictures and reports them to the government? Fires them? What if there is a dispute, the laborer takes the customer to court for false claims? Who polices the customer? The logistics of making everyone a cop make no sense to me.

You are overthinking it. If you see your contractor not using PPE, you just tell them to put it on. Just like you'd tell him to do it properly if you saw him cutting corners somewhere else. Contractors want to get paid, so they generally tend to do what the person paying the bill asks them to do.

[deleted]

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#499

Post by scarby2 »

Modified3019 wrote: post #379
Hawxy wrote: post #169

It's very much worth reading the full reasoning within the SafeWork decision (page 56): https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/sites/default/files/202... SafeWork's view is that the industry is too much of a non-compliant mess to recommend any other option apart from a complete ban.

Makes sense, this kind of work can have an extremely “toxic” anti-ppe culture that’s impossible to mitigate against without outright burning the industry to the ground. Fines and inspections are easy to dodge when everyone involved is trying to do so. Hell I work in agronomy and it’s hard enough getting seasonal helpers to wear earplugs when riding ATVs all day. Then there was an old supervisor from a former oil chan…

I used to work in defence manufacturing, we initially had a very macho, play it by ear culture, now it's the complete opposite. You can and will be fired very quickly for not following health and safety rules.

This mainly came out of a series of lawsuits and happened industry wide (the fear of millions of dollars of compensation was enough to get all the players to get very serious)

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#500

Post by ktm5j »

tinco wrote: post #334
ktm5j wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay well you clearly have a great life with a lot to live for, but that's not really the case for everyone. How about you don't judge people you're calling "tradies" for how they decide to live their lives.

Did you even read the article? These people are very young, and deeply regret the way they decided to live their lives. And tradies is not some kind of slur, it's how they refer to their colleagues across the trades. And wtf is up with just assuming these people who don't wear PPE don't think they have a great life with a lot to live for, there's literally a 35yr old dude with 3 loving kids in one of the pictures of…

Sorry if that was off base, I'm not in a good place right now.
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