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Turing awardees republished key methods and ideas without credit

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Re: Turing awardees republished key methods and ideas without credit

#11

Post by erostrate »

List of "famous" ML people not to waste time on:

- Gary Marcus

- Juergen Schmidhuber

- Pedro Domingos

- Max Tegmark

- Eliezer Yudkowsky

Some context for people unfamiliar with ML research: the author, Schmidhuber, is well known for claiming that he should get credit for many ML ideas. Most ML researchers think that:

- He doesn't deserve the credit he claims, in most if not all cases.

- There's a few cases where his papers should have been cited and weren't. That's fairly common.

- People do not get much credit for formulating an abstract idea in a paper or implementing it on a toy problem. Credit belongs to whoever actually makes it work.

- Credit assignment in ML is not perfect but roughly works.

Re: Turing awardees republished key methods and ideas without credit

#12

Post by rcbdev »

erostrate wrote: post #11

List of "famous" ML people not to waste time on: - Gary Marcus - Juergen Schmidhuber - Pedro Domingos - Max Tegmark - Eliezer Yudkowsky Some context for people unfamiliar with ML research: the author, Schmidhuber, is well known for claiming that he should get credit for many ML ideas. Most ML researchers think that: - He doesn't deserve the credit he claims, in most if not all cases. - There's a few cases where his p…

While I generally agree with you in these specific cases, I feel like this is a shortsighted form of argument nonetheless. Coming up with an idea begets a scalable implementation of it and it's not very wise to ascribe absolute value solely on one side of the equation.

Re: Turing awardees republished key methods and ideas without credit

#13

Post by TimPC »

rcbdev wrote: post #12
erostrate wrote: post #11

List of "famous" ML people not to waste time on: - Gary Marcus - Juergen Schmidhuber - Pedro Domingos - Max Tegmark - Eliezer Yudkowsky Some context for people unfamiliar with ML research: the author, Schmidhuber, is well known for claiming that he should get credit for many ML ideas. Most ML researchers think that: - He doesn't deserve the credit he claims, in most if not all cases. - There's a few cases where his p…

While I generally agree with you in these specific cases, I feel like this is a shortsighted form of argument nonetheless. Coming up with an idea begets a scalable implementation of it and it's not very wise to ascribe absolute value solely on one side of the equation.

I think it's less about scalability and more about identifying specific choices that are promising. A lot of Schmidthuber's work paints out broad ideas in grand strokes and suggests hundreds of potential neural networks without evaluating what choices in that massive space are good. He then claims credit when other people identify the specific one or two of those hundred models (often with minor variations that make it not immediately obvious whether it perfectly fits the broad definition or not) that are actually promising.

Re: Turing awardees republished key methods and ideas without credit

#14

Post by mahe_ »

erostrate wrote: post #11

List of "famous" ML people not to waste time on: - Gary Marcus - Juergen Schmidhuber - Pedro Domingos - Max Tegmark - Eliezer Yudkowsky Some context for people unfamiliar with ML research: the author, Schmidhuber, is well known for claiming that he should get credit for many ML ideas. Most ML researchers think that: - He doesn't deserve the credit he claims, in most if not all cases. - There's a few cases where his p…

> Credit belongs to whoever actually makes it work.

This is just plain wrong. No working version without the idea.

Re: Turing awardees republished key methods and ideas without credit

#17

Post by gedy »

As an outsider to this space, it seems suspect that all of the people he has a beef with (like LaCun) will gladly cite others and predecessors, but not Schmidhuber.

Has he explained his reasons for thinking there is some conspiracy? Otherwise it reflects badly on his assessment of himself, or possibly his mental state.

Re: Turing awardees republished key methods and ideas without credit

#18

Post by martopix »

hiddencost wrote: post #3

Schmidhuber really needs to stop. He's been beating this drum for decades and he's wrong.

If a guy becomes famous almost exclusively for having a beef with someone else (and this someone else really doesn't need to beat any drum in order to be famous), then something is wrong. Basically these days this is what Schmidhuber is associated to. Which is kind of sad, really.

Re: Turing awardees republished key methods and ideas without credit

#19

Post by GlenTheMachine »

erostrate wrote: post #11

List of "famous" ML people not to waste time on: - Gary Marcus - Juergen Schmidhuber - Pedro Domingos - Max Tegmark - Eliezer Yudkowsky Some context for people unfamiliar with ML research: the author, Schmidhuber, is well known for claiming that he should get credit for many ML ideas. Most ML researchers think that: - He doesn't deserve the credit he claims, in most if not all cases. - There's a few cases where his p…

Why Tegmark?

Re: Turing awardees republished key methods and ideas without credit

#20

Post by tines »

SeanLuke wrote: post #9

We published a paper a while back in a genetic programming conference, and before the paper had been published (only the title was announced) Schmidhuber guessed that we had not cited his work. He very publically put us through the wringer for not citing him as the inventor of the concept were were examining. In fact we had not cited him: but among our dozen or so previous examples, we had cited two others which long…

> He very publically put us through the wringer for not citing him as the inventor of the concept were were examining

He put you through the wringer for not citing him in the announcement of the title?

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