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Australia to ban engineered stone

abc.net.au

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Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#61

Post by fmajid »

jdietrich wrote: post #58
saxman001 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wearing PPE is miserable. The respiratory masks that reliably keep silica out of your lungs are painful. My job involves working with silica powders and I can really only handle about 20-30 minutes decked out in my bunny suit, respirator, over eye goggles, gloves and disposable sleeves before I need to take a break for air. This is in a climate controlled environment with a minimally physical set of tasks. Having wor…

PPE is the last resort when other mitigation measures are inadequate, but positive-pressure respirators (either powered air-purifying or supplied-air) are really very comfortable. No face seal is required and you've got a constant flow of cool air. Spray painters, asbestos workers, media blasters and many welders will wear one for the majority of their working hours. Engineered stone is undoubtedly more hazardous tha…

Didn't coal miners also use to get silicosis?

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#62

Post by satori99 »

Freedom2 wrote: post #5

I'm not a huge fan of government overreach like this. Workers should have refused to work with the material if it were truly dangerous, and the free market would have eventually pushed engineered stone out, giving way to innovation for a better, safer material.

> Workers should have refused to work with the material if it were truly dangerous

They did -- several months ago. The relevant unions members voted to refuse to work with engineered stone at all, if it was not banned outright by the government, which is what happened yesterday.

https://www.australianunions.org.au/2023/10/24/unions-vote-t...

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#63

Post by vore »

Freedom2 wrote: post #5

I'm not a huge fan of government overreach like this. Workers should have refused to work with the material if it were truly dangerous, and the free market would have eventually pushed engineered stone out, giving way to innovation for a better, safer material.

I'm not a huge fan of government overreach either. Children should have refused to work if child labor was truly bad, and the free market would have eventually pushed child labor out, giving way to better, more ethical labor practices.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#64

Post by Yodel0914 »

zaphirplane wrote: post #31

No arguing against the ban I have to say the alternatives from the article are significantly more expensive, not durable or silly (concrete) Anyone had luck with one of the alternatives * Natural stone * Porcelain * Laminate * Tiles * Concrete * Wood/Timber

Anecdotally, we have laminate benchtops which have been in place for ~30 years (long before we bought the house) and they're pretty much flawless, despite being treated pretty roughly. We're having the kitchen re-done soon and will go with laminate again.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#65

Post by cannedbeets »

legitster wrote: post #18

> Earlier this year workplace ministers tasked Safe Work Australia, a government WHS agency, with investigating how a ban could work and whether low-silica engineered stone could remain on the market safely. > The report found there was no safe level of silica, concluding: "The use of all engineered stone should be prohibited." I don't understand this logic. Silica is also present in natural stone too! If they are no…

The engineered stone is almost entirely silica.

> Hoy said that long before stonecutters started struggling to breathe, the sheer amount of silica in many kinds of engineered stone — upwards of 90% — should have made it obvious that the material was risky to cut and grind, especially in workplaces without sophisticated measures to control dust.(1)

> But scientists and regulators have grown concerned about whether recommended strategies such as wet cutting, proper ventilation and wearing respirator masks can do enough to protect workers from dust so high in silica. Cal/OSHA officials have generally described silicosis as preventable, but also caution that with 93% silica(2) content, “safe use of engineered stone may not be possible” even with proper workplace practices.(1)

(1) https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-11-19/why-cali...

2. https://www.osha.gov/sites/default/files/publications/OSHA37...

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#66

Post by Gigachad »

oooyay wrote: post #48
amluto wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PPE is the wrong solution here. Tools that don’t produce dust are the right solution. Wet tile saws and waterjets can cut stone (and engineered stone) with essentially no dust. An angle grinder with a dust shroud and HEPA filtered extractor (total cost starts around $400) can do the same thing a regular angle grinder does but with a lot less dust. And one really can work all day in a pouch-style N95 mask. They don’t…

> PPE is the wrong solution here. Tools that don’t produce dust are the right solution. "Essentially no dust" is not "no dust". There are no safe levels of silica that can be introduced to your lungs. > And one really can work all day in a pouch-style N95 mask N95 is basically the bare minimum in terms of filters. In my shop I have a shop vac with a tornado tumbler that attaches to tools for fine wood dust and a full…

There is no safe level of alcohol consumption, there is no safe level of car exhaust fumes, etc.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#67

Post by sellmesoap »

insaneirish wrote: post #27
archontes wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that folks will install it on site without cutting it?

As far as countertops go, field cuts are rather uncommon. Laser templating works well. Holes on the other hand tend to be done in the field. But, people don't wear PPE even though it's simple and easy to do.

Due to lack of tech work I've been installing stone countertops. I can confirm we cut on site around half the time, microplastics galore (you can smell the polyester in the air).

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#68

Post by Gigachad »

zaphirplane wrote: post #31

No arguing against the ban I have to say the alternatives from the article are significantly more expensive, not durable or silly (concrete) Anyone had luck with one of the alternatives * Natural stone * Porcelain * Laminate * Tiles * Concrete * Wood/Timber

Porcelain seems like the best option here.

Re: Australia to ban engineered stone

#69

Post by mxxx »

Freedom2 wrote: post #5

I'm not a huge fan of government overreach like this. Workers should have refused to work with the material if it were truly dangerous, and the free market would have eventually pushed engineered stone out, giving way to innovation for a better, safer material.

australia's experience with asbestos would indicate otherwise.
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