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Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

bloomberg.com

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Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#211

Post by m463 »

multimoon wrote: post #148
MattRix wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like all of these are minor annoyances compared to the more serious safety issues they are trying to prevent. I feel like you are underestimating how stupid the average user is… and especially how stupid the most stupid users are.

We have a drivers exam in one form or another in nearly every country that is intended to certify and evaluate your ability to pilot a vehicle. While it doesn’t always, it should include all facets of driving and the car shouldn’t need to hold your hand. I strongly believe that this hand holding cars are required to do now just lowers the average skill of new drivers. A great example of this is an alarming amount of…

> unguided on mirrors alone

I suspect pretty soon the mirrors may go the way of morse code with respect to tesging.

Tesla is trying to eliminate rearview mirrors, replacing them with cameras.

that said, I LIKE mirrors - they don't go out or white out in the wrong lighting. I also like turn signals and gearshift levers, which tesla has already eliminated. It seems like the only button you can depend on in a tesla is the hazard lights (by law)

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#212

Post by jjav »

not_your_vase wrote: post #2

We should either stop calling these recalls, or news sites should announce iOS and Android updates in a similar manner also > Apple is recalling 45 Brazilion iPhones and iPads to fix software flaw

> We should either stop calling these recalls

"Recall" has a regulatory definition, so this is that.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#213

Post by jjav »

mngdtt wrote: post #13
mackman wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the FCC mandated Apple deploy an update to reduce phones catching fire then yes, I would use the term recall. For bugs that don’t fall into the safety or regulatory compliance category I would not.

"recall" is a malicious term in this context because it sounds like you need to take your car somewhere and have it out of service for a few days.

> "recall" is a malicious term in this context

No. "recall" is a term with a meaning, it means:

- the manufacturer has been obligated to fix this

- they must fix it for all listed cars

- they must fix it for free

The term "recall" doesn't imply anything about the implementation details how the above is going to be accomplished.

Whether you have to take it to a dealer, or it's done over the air, or even if they have to ship the car back to the factory, makes no difference to that fact that it is a recall.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#214

Post by balls187 »

jader201 wrote: post #117
balls187 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of American drivers do exactly that. I’m guilty of it.

At least you admit it, but please stop. You’re not only endangering your own life, but you’re endangering others as well. It’s one thing to do this on rare occasions to change a route on the navigation, or change a song. But for many people, being on their phone is the norm and not the exception — that’s what’s crazy.

Sorry my comment wasn’t clear, lots of Americans pick up their cellphone, as I do, and yes it’s not safe, even when done rarely.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#215

Post by B1FF_PSUVM »

jjav wrote: post #210
B1FF_PSUVM wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going for the Darwin with a 2007 model, still uses ignition key, fob is only for remote locks. But yeah, I've been spoiled by modern fobs you don't even take out of your pocket. I really like those, that's the kind of convenience that makes you sign up for robot overlords ...

> I really like those, that's the kind of convenience that makes you sign up for robot overlords These can be super annoying. My partner has a car which just spontaneously unlocks whenever the key approaches. Which is ridiculous since often I'm just walking to the mailbox or out to a different car and have zero desire to unlock that particular car. It just assumes, without understanding what I'm actually doing. Which…

All I have met so far is the kind you push a door button to open, or close.

They even have carjacking prevention features, to keep unwanted riders out - only the driver door opens unless you start by opening another door or double-tap the driver's.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#216

Post by 1970-01-01 »

MattRix wrote: post #195
Der_Einzige wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with letting people win darwin awards?

Whatever happened to empathy? Those people don’t deserve to die despite making mistakes or being careless. Many of them probably have kids or other family that love and rely on them.

Mike Rowe on safety third:

https://mikerowe.com/2020/03/walk-me-through-this-safety-thi...

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#217

Post by 1970-01-01 »

The Actual NHTSA recall report is here:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V838-8276.PDF

Relevant part: >Description of the Safety Risk : In certain circumstances when Autosteer is engaged, if a driver misuses the SAE Level 2 advanced driver-assistance feature such that they fail to maintain continuous and sustained responsibility for vehicle operation and are unprepared to intervene, fail to recognize when the feature is canceled or not engaged, and/or fail to recognize when the feature is operating in situations where its functionality may be limited, there may be an increased risk of a collision.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#218

Post by 1970-01-01 »

ryanklee wrote: post #115
mensetmanusman wrote: post #46

Still calling over the air software updates recalls?

The number of people in this comment section that are getting hung up on the word recall without looking into established usage and legal definitions of the word is nuts.

De facto vs de jure definitions for recall.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#219

Post by Closi »

alistairSH wrote: post #193
Closi wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well again, Autopilot probably is an accurate word then - because consumers should clearly know the limitations and nuances of Autopilot to safely operate it, and a failure to understand those limitations can clearly have deadly consequences. Is the argument "You can't call it Autopilot because Autopilot refers to a complex system that requires a skilled operator and needs people to pay constant attention"?

I don't really care what it's named. I care about the implications of the system in the real world. Humans are notoriously bad at paying attention to boring tasks. This applies to pilots as well as ordinary drivers (thus the massive amount of training, redundant operators, and very details operators manuals/procedures that apply to ATPs). Tesla released a system that encourages people to operate their car with less t…

Fine, we are agreed then.

I’m just talking about the name because that’s what this thread was about.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#220

Post by AYBABTME »

darknavi wrote: post #201
AYBABTME wrote: post #78

Autopilot is already trigger happy and turning off for nothing, this will kill the value of using it. It's already quite annoying to have to do more dumb performative work to use Autopilot than to use a legacy radar based cruise control with lane keeping... At the end of the day, even with FSD the software isn't good enough to be more than a glorified lane keeping adaptive cruise control, but it's more annoyingly sta…

That's odd. I've had AP and FSD disable abruptly a hand full of times in the last five years on our Model 3 and Model Y. It will happily chime at me if it thinks I am looking at my phone or something, but it is just doing the blue strobe + audible chime, not completely disabling. From my experience if FSD/AP turns off without me turning it off, it makes sounds that seem like the whole airplane is going to crash. Same…

Yep but sometimes it acts in mysterious ways. Also the whole blue hue thing when I'm focused on the road is quite annoying.
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