Live data from Hacker News

Artificial intelligence systems found to excel at imitation, but not innovation

techxplore.com

31–40 of 126 posts

Re: Artificial intelligence systems found to excel at imitation, but not innovation

#32
Arguably the human-ness (or even animal-ness) of thought is, at its root, characterized as the ability abstract in a novel manner (the neurocog term for innovate).

In other words, it is the ability to find patterns between two concepts that weren't, ever, prior announced. A computer that could do this would then be AI. A computer that cannot would fall short of that category, however otherwise dazzling in stitching together established patterns.

A quick human, and therefore, machine test of this ability might be decoding of prior unseen allegory. How fast and accurately can a human or machine identify (abstract) any true pattern in an allegory that can be applied to another seemingly unrelated concept or story? Again, this would have to be a new allegory to the subject. Ideally, harboring a pattern that isn't discussed anywhere in training data.

The AI would be held to be improved as its ability improved to decode and apply increasingly abstract or otherwise complex patterns from allegory or stories.

Not that I would be, but I'm un aware of any LLM / AI progress toward that type of processing.

Re: Artificial intelligence systems found to excel at imitation, but not innovation

#35
post #26

Innovation is simply a result of trying to imitate, but adding errors. That's how humans do it. Add in some darwinism so that the best 'innovations' survive. Made a mistake in making food? Oh, that's a new recipe. Can't really remember how to tell the story? Well, that's a new story. Accidentally kicked a ball while trying to just walk? I just invented soccer. And so on.

Partly yes. But if you throw a million items at the wall you also have tell which ones stick. An infinite random walk isn’t useful unless you have infinite verification to determine what is promising, so you can guide your next steps and continue discovering stuff.

Re: Artificial intelligence systems found to excel at imitation, but not innovation

#36
post #21
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until they can't find seniors anymore.

AI is going to be in a different place in 5 or 10 years.

Hopefully.

However, I had the impression there doesn't exist enough training data to make that place different in a meaningful way.

Still, I think, letting some skilled UX designers loose on input methods could improve things quite a bit, even if the models won't get "smarter".

Re: Artificial intelligence systems found to excel at imitation, but not innovation

#37

> Artificial intelligence systems found to Excel at imitation, but not innovation And they do it using the Microsoft spreadsheet software?

That's the Word on the street

I Sheet you not, it was a PowerPoint

Re: Artificial intelligence systems found to excel at imitation, but not innovation

#38
post #23

I'm shocked; shocked to learn that no innovation is going on at this AI establishment. Mimicry needs information, of which an AI has heaps; but, innovation needs will, of which it has none. Maybe some day, but not now.

> innovation needs will feedback Innovation needs feedback, otherwise all ML papers would not run evaluations. Humans come up with 100 stupid ideas that fail at eval before stumbling onto a good one. Improving innovation is a matter of putting the AI inside a system that can provide feedback. Remember AlphaGo move 37? The model created feedback by self-play games, and beat all humans at Go - feedback made it really m…

Known feedback is already encoded in the inputs. I don't remember move 37, but I think I know to what you're referring. Playing games against itself, and remembering, meant that outcomes (i.e. feedback) were already encoded in the inputs for the next run. It had a goal - win the game - but it's hard to claim that the machine itself was wilful. The people who designed it were. But, the machine was just an incredibly effective goal-seeking instrument. The rules were clear, the goal was clear; everything was pretty constrained. Just because move 37 never happened to have been used previously in the recorded history of Go, except in the games the machine played against itself, is meaningless in a claim to innovation. It was just both novel and effective. The will sets the goal, it precedes it. The scientific method is neither here nor there. I don't understand its relevance to the point I believe you're trying to make. Theorize, test, refine or abandon. It's mechanical, except in the theorization and the decision making around refinement or abandonment. What can we imagine? and how shall we judge? Both efforts of will. Someone has to decide that shelter is a good thing, and some smart person in Zambia, a long time ago, came up with the idea and pushed it forward. That person must have wanted to do it, without prompting and without prior knowledge; at least, the first one must have. I recall Einstein's own story that he came up with the original theory of relativity by imagining what it would be like to sit on a light beam. Innovative stuff. Imagining doesn't seem very AI-ish to me. My personal view is that, right now, AI's have only memory, and that they don't have experience. Experience is the why?-part and the judgement part without an external entity establishing a goal-seeking mechanism. Maybe they'll get there. Who knows?

Re: Artificial intelligence systems found to excel at imitation, but not innovation

#39
As I see it the AI schism is more about the debate between functionalism/computationalism and the idea that the chinese room thought experiment was an argument for, "biological naturalism". There is a lot of effort dedicated to showing that AIs dont have some innate quality called "consciousnes" or "sentience" or what have you. There is not just a lot of effort to show that, but also to show that that is somehow a limitation to the capabilities of an "AI".

Personally I think "consciousness" or "sentience" or whatever you want to call it, is really not that useful in making logical decisions or solving engineering problems. It is certainly a useful trait to humans but if nobody can tell that the person/program in the chinese room doesnt actually "understand" chinese then why does it matter? If it walks and talks like a duck you can probably use it for whatever ducks are useful for.

Post reply on HN