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Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

nytimes.com

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Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#31

Post by phkahler »

seeekr wrote: post #10
filoleg wrote: post #2

Note: “tesla recalls” == “tesla pushes OTA software update (just like any regular OTA update)”

I think at some point the absurdity of the numbers (now it's 2M, soon it'll be 10M, 50M, ...) will become so great that NHTSA will stop calling this a "recall", and then this term will no longer be usable for clickbait article titles. Absurdity because it'll get harder and harder to imagine how a company might bring in millions and millions of vehicles in for service repeatedly, from a logistics and cost perspective,…

Tesla gets to address recalls via OTA software updates right up to the point where they can not. Then, as you note, 2M+ vehicles needing physical replacement parts or rework will kill them because they have no way to do that. EVs are simple enough that they might avoid that scenario entirely.

But imagine one of those massive castings developing cracks and needing some reinforcements welded on in the field, or really any part. FEA is probably the most important tech that Tesla is dependent on.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#32

Post by [deleted] »

Oras wrote: post #8
filoleg wrote: post #2

Note: “tesla recalls” == “tesla pushes OTA software update (just like any regular OTA update)”

From the article: > Tesla began issuing an “over-the-air software remedy” to certain vehicles on Tuesday, safety officials said. The remaining vehicles will receive software updates later, and all updates will be free for the cars’ owners. I was confused as to why Tesla needs to "recall" when they can do OTA update. The title is misleading surprise

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#33

Post by dharmab »

judge2020 wrote: post #24
asylteltine wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it’s a legally mandated thing. You know, because Tesla lies about bugs, features, and safety issues all the time.

> Tesla decided this month to voluntarily administer a recall.

NHtSA can force them to recall the cars, the "voluntary" part is to save face.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#34

Post by cush »

filoleg wrote: post #2

Note: “tesla recalls” == “tesla pushes OTA software update (just like any regular OTA update)”

Just because a manufacturer applies a fix OTA doesn’t make it not a recall. Recall is just a term. Regulators issue the recall. How the manufacturer performs the fix can vary.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#35

Post by solardev »

itsoktocry wrote: post #17
seeekr wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think at some point the absurdity of the numbers (now it's 2M, soon it'll be 10M, 50M, ...) will become so great that NHTSA will stop calling this a "recall", and then this term will no longer be usable for clickbait article titles. Absurdity because it'll get harder and harder to imagine how a company might bring in millions and millions of vehicles in for service repeatedly, from a logistics and cost perspective,…

> and then this term will no longer be usable for clickbait article titles. It's not clickbait, that's ridiculous. The essence of the article is the results of the investigation. NHSTA has a process, they investigated and issued a recall. The fact that it can be fixed OTA doesn't change the intent of what's happening. I mean, at what point does the first comment stop being, "It's not a recall!" Who cares. I'm more in…

> If it's so easy, why didn't Tesla do it on their own?

It's situations like this that make me not trust Tesla and Musk. I always feel like they're misrepresenting the vehicle's capabilities, and I have no idea what I'm actually getting in terms of autopilot capabilities.

When I rode in a friend's Tesla, the real time display of the sensors did not inspire confidence. It missed a lot of cars and pedestrians.

I think the technology has a lot of transformative potential, but between their continuous hype over substance, ripping out lidar to be cheap, etc., it's just really hard to trust them.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#36

Post by solardev »

judge2020 wrote: post #22
solardev wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because the NHTSA forced them into a safety related "recall". It's not just a regular OTA update. Tesla has a long history of being dishonest about Autopilot capabilities and dangers, and it's killed several people so far. The NHTSA is forcing them to make some tweaks. (Not arguing that autopilot is on the whole any more or less safe than human drivers. Just that Tesla has a history of misrepresentation.)

> Tesla has a long history of being dishonest about Autopilot capabilities and dangers, and it's killed several people so far. The NHTSA is forcing them to make some tweaks. From the article: > > The update will add new, more prominent visual alerts and checks for the Autosteer function, which is part of Autopilot. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said there may be “increased risk of a crash” when A…

It's probably a negotiation they had, and that was the compromise they reached.

We all want 100% safe auto driving. We're not there yet. Tesla wants to pretend we are, the NHTSA doesn't, we end up with occasional situations like this where things get marginally safer and more annoying.

Just growing pains for a young industry, I hope.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#37

Post by seanmcdirmid »

solardev wrote: post #15
Oras wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > Tesla began issuing an “over-the-air software remedy” to certain vehicles on Tuesday, safety officials said. The remaining vehicles will receive software updates later, and all updates will be free for the cars’ owners. I was confused as to why Tesla needs to "recall" when they can do OTA update. The title is misleading surprise

It's because the NHTSA forced them into a safety related "recall". It's not just a regular OTA update. Tesla has a long history of being dishonest about Autopilot capabilities and dangers, and it's killed several people so far. The NHTSA is forcing them to make some tweaks. (Not arguing that autopilot is on the whole any more or less safe than human drivers. Just that Tesla has a history of misrepresentation.)

I thought Tesla was known for being dishonest about its FSD feature, not AutoPilot, which is a less ambitious lane keeping/auto cruise control feature?

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#38

Post by toast0 »

sickofparadox wrote: post #28
nickthegreek wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headline is perfectly clear and is not using language in a new way. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issues recalls for safety related issues. The way the manufacture resolves the issues can differ.

If the average user on HN needs an explanation that a word in a title actually has a completely different effective meaning, I'd say that it is unlikely to be a clear title.

I agree, Tesla should change the name of their driver assistance suite.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#39

Post by acdha »

itsoktocry wrote: post #17
seeekr wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think at some point the absurdity of the numbers (now it's 2M, soon it'll be 10M, 50M, ...) will become so great that NHTSA will stop calling this a "recall", and then this term will no longer be usable for clickbait article titles. Absurdity because it'll get harder and harder to imagine how a company might bring in millions and millions of vehicles in for service repeatedly, from a logistics and cost perspective,…

> and then this term will no longer be usable for clickbait article titles. It's not clickbait, that's ridiculous. The essence of the article is the results of the investigation. NHSTA has a process, they investigated and issued a recall. The fact that it can be fixed OTA doesn't change the intent of what's happening. I mean, at what point does the first comment stop being, "It's not a recall!" Who cares. I'm more in…

> I'm more interested in the obvious questions, like: does the update actually make anything safer? If it's so easy, why didn't Tesla do it on their own?

Tesla has advertised many features which do not work reliably or, in some cases, at all. If they don’t want to admit that, they’re going to resist - especially if it’s going to fuel a class action lawsuit claiming that this feature is not in the state it was sold as.

The NHTSA does not have that conflicting set of incentives.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#40

Post by nickthegreek »

sickofparadox wrote: post #28
nickthegreek wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headline is perfectly clear and is not using language in a new way. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issues recalls for safety related issues. The way the manufacture resolves the issues can differ.

If the average user on HN needs an explanation that a word in a title actually has a completely different effective meaning, I'd say that it is unlikely to be a clear title.

I see no evidence that the average user on HN needed an explanation. I think a small minority needed one.

Here is Tesla's recall page: https://www.tesla.com/support/annual-and-recall-service

Several of these were fixed with OTA updates. Tesla doesn't seem to be confused on the meaning of the word. This very site has had these exact OTA recall submissions for years.

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