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Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

nytimes.com

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Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#21

Post by acdha »

Oras wrote: post #18
solardev wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because the NHTSA forced them into a safety related "recall". It's not just a regular OTA update. Tesla has a long history of being dishonest about Autopilot capabilities and dangers, and it's killed several people so far. The NHTSA is forcing them to make some tweaks. (Not arguing that autopilot is on the whole any more or less safe than human drivers. Just that Tesla has a history of misrepresentation.)

> It's because the NHTSA forced them into a safety related "recall". It's not just a regular OTA update. And how does this "recall" work? Is it physically taking the car to a branch to apply the update? I'm curious to know.

It can be over the air but calling it a recall also brings notification requirements and means that if you bring it in to the service department they’ll do it for you, too.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#22

Post by judge2020 »

solardev wrote: post #15
Oras wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > Tesla began issuing an “over-the-air software remedy” to certain vehicles on Tuesday, safety officials said. The remaining vehicles will receive software updates later, and all updates will be free for the cars’ owners. I was confused as to why Tesla needs to "recall" when they can do OTA update. The title is misleading surprise

It's because the NHTSA forced them into a safety related "recall". It's not just a regular OTA update. Tesla has a long history of being dishonest about Autopilot capabilities and dangers, and it's killed several people so far. The NHTSA is forcing them to make some tweaks. (Not arguing that autopilot is on the whole any more or less safe than human drivers. Just that Tesla has a history of misrepresentation.)

> Tesla has a long history of being dishonest about Autopilot capabilities and dangers, and it's killed several people so far. The NHTSA is forcing them to make some tweaks.

From the article:

> > The update will add new, more prominent visual alerts and checks for the Autosteer function, which is part of Autopilot. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said there may be “increased risk of a crash” when Autosteer is engaged and drivers do not “maintain responsibility for vehicle operation.”

I don't buy this. Tesla's driver monitoring during autosteer is among the most annoying in the industry, and it has even more protections than other systems (like how BlueCruise used to [maybe still does] allow you to take off your seatbelt without deactivating).

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#23

Post by jondwillis »

rgbrgb wrote: post #12
trident5000 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NYT is more than capable of making a clear headline. These are not stupid people. But they do have goals.

what do you think their goals are? where do they get them?

As an observer:

Elon is a cringey based edgelord, accelerated the decline of their favorite platform (Twitter), re-platforms and signal boosts people/grifters with dangerous ideas, and all of that outweighs, in their estimation, whatever good will he earned with Tesla/SpaceX in the prior decade.

Oh, he’s also a generationally wealthy South African. They’re on one side of the culture war, he’s (newly?) on the other.

They want him stripped of influence. Or maybe they’re just really big fans of Kia and Volkswagen, dunno.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#24

Post by judge2020 »

asylteltine wrote: post #20
Oras wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > Tesla began issuing an “over-the-air software remedy” to certain vehicles on Tuesday, safety officials said. The remaining vehicles will receive software updates later, and all updates will be free for the cars’ owners. I was confused as to why Tesla needs to "recall" when they can do OTA update. The title is misleading surprise

Because it’s a legally mandated thing. You know, because Tesla lies about bugs, features, and safety issues all the time.

> Tesla decided this month to voluntarily administer a recall.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#26

Post by solardev »

Oras wrote: post #18
solardev wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because the NHTSA forced them into a safety related "recall". It's not just a regular OTA update. Tesla has a long history of being dishonest about Autopilot capabilities and dangers, and it's killed several people so far. The NHTSA is forcing them to make some tweaks. (Not arguing that autopilot is on the whole any more or less safe than human drivers. Just that Tesla has a history of misrepresentation.)

> It's because the NHTSA forced them into a safety related "recall". It's not just a regular OTA update. And how does this "recall" work? Is it physically taking the car to a branch to apply the update? I'm curious to know.

It's an OTA update, as you know. It's great that they can do this.

It's just a semantic thing. I think the actual mechanism (that there is a regulatory body that can force auto makers to improve safety, whether OTA or in the shop) is cool, but I agree that the word "recall" is confusing. It's just a holdover from old processes. Maybe the terminology will change in time. Probably not.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#27

Post by hiddencost »

Oras wrote: post #18
solardev wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because the NHTSA forced them into a safety related "recall". It's not just a regular OTA update. Tesla has a long history of being dishonest about Autopilot capabilities and dangers, and it's killed several people so far. The NHTSA is forcing them to make some tweaks. (Not arguing that autopilot is on the whole any more or less safe than human drivers. Just that Tesla has a history of misrepresentation.)

> It's because the NHTSA forced them into a safety related "recall". It's not just a regular OTA update. And how does this "recall" work? Is it physically taking the car to a branch to apply the update? I'm curious to know.

No. Recall is a legal term, and just means Tesla is required by law to fix a defect. And that certain penalties and duties apply to them. The recall can be totally remote.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#28

Post by sickofparadox »

nickthegreek wrote: post #11
trident5000 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NYT is more than capable of making a clear headline. These are not stupid people. But they do have goals.

The headline is perfectly clear and is not using language in a new way. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issues recalls for safety related issues. The way the manufacture resolves the issues can differ.

If the average user on HN needs an explanation that a word in a title actually has a completely different effective meaning, I'd say that it is unlikely to be a clear title.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#29

Post by hiddencost »

judge2020 wrote: post #24
asylteltine wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it’s a legally mandated thing. You know, because Tesla lies about bugs, features, and safety issues all the time.

> Tesla decided this month to voluntarily administer a recall.

Which means they chose not to contest the NHTSA.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Vehicles over Autopilot Software Issue

#30

Post by brandonagr2 »

solardev wrote: post #15
Oras wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > Tesla began issuing an “over-the-air software remedy” to certain vehicles on Tuesday, safety officials said. The remaining vehicles will receive software updates later, and all updates will be free for the cars’ owners. I was confused as to why Tesla needs to "recall" when they can do OTA update. The title is misleading surprise

It's because the NHTSA forced them into a safety related "recall". It's not just a regular OTA update. Tesla has a long history of being dishonest about Autopilot capabilities and dangers, and it's killed several people so far. The NHTSA is forcing them to make some tweaks. (Not arguing that autopilot is on the whole any more or less safe than human drivers. Just that Tesla has a history of misrepresentation.)

It is a regular OTA update.

Negligent drivers have killed people, not autopilot capabilities. Take the example in the recent Washington Post article where a driver ran through a stop sign at a T intersection, left the road, and killed a bystander.

What the article didn't say is that the system reduced cruise set point to 45 mph due to the road type, but the driver was _holding down the accelerator pedal_ to maintain 60 mph as it flew through the stop sign. The driver admitted they knew they were responsible for the controlling the car.

What is your evidence that drivers not knowing Autopilot capabilities, and not intentional misuse by negligent drivers, killed several people?

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