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Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

bloomberg.com

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Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#141

Post by earthling8118 »

dangus wrote: post #118
freedomben wrote: post #28

I really wonder where we're headed (in general, not specifically with Teslas) regarding technologies requirements to "do enough to prevent misuse." These requirements are already a major thorn in my side. My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus o…

> My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus on driving when there is a blaring alarm in your face. You aren’t supposed to be driving until all occupants in your vehicle have buckled their seatbelts. That’s why the alarm is loud and annoying, becaus…

Did you read the rest of the post? A backpack shouldn't require a seat belt to drive. If there is going to be a sensor and response like this it should be done correctly.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#142

Post by captainmuon »

spdif899 wrote: post #102
captainmuon wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's basically lane assist + cruise control but stops working if you look away? I'm not going to pay 7500 €/$ for that. The whole purpose of self-driving for me would be to be able to stretch my arms or do something small on my phone every now and then. I'm totally fine if the car is uber careful and drives super slow or parks on the shoulder if it is not 100% sure what to do, and I'm also fine if it says "Attenti…

This article and discussion are specifically regarding base autopilot, not FSD.

Yeah I mixed up the terms but I was talking about things like autopilot.

My point was even if you don't have "door-to-door good as a human driver really fully self-driving", the main feature of self-driving is that you should be able to not pay attention for a while. Personally I'm not sure that "proper" FSD will even be possible in the near future.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#143

Post by donatj »

freedomben wrote: post #28

I really wonder where we're headed (in general, not specifically with Teslas) regarding technologies requirements to "do enough to prevent misuse." These requirements are already a major thorn in my side. My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus o…

My wife’s Scion lets out the worlds most painful screech if you try to lock the doors with one of them open. My Mazda will just… lock the doors. I don’t even understand what the Scion is trying to accomplish. It’s just trying to mock you I guess.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#144

Post by badpun »

MarkusWandel wrote: post #134
dangus wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus on driving when there is a blaring alarm in your face. You aren’t supposed to be driving until all occupants in your vehicle have buckled their seatbelts. That’s why the alarm is loud and annoying, becaus…

My car's gone the opposite way. When trying to find it in the parking lot, with the old one, you just pushed "lock" on the keyfob twice and listened for the horn honk. The new one makes a nice, elegant but not very loud "beep" sound. Useless for this purpose. They also got the seat belt warning right. At startup it displays a map of the seats, green if occupied and buckled, red if not, grey if unoccupied. Good for ch…

> My car's gone the opposite way. When trying to find it in the parking lot, with the old one, you just pushed "lock" on the keyfob twice and listened for the horn honk. The new one makes a nice, elegant but not very loud "beep" sound. Useless for this purpose.

Good for everyone around though, because you're not polluting the soundscape with a completely unncessary honk. Where I live, honking within cities is allowed only in emergency or dangerous situations. Not that anyone follows that law though.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#145

Post by toss1 »

Meanwhile, Musk is suing California claiming that restrictions on false advertising are a 1st Amendment violation [0].

He wants to be free to lie claiming that it is fully autonomous.

And here is a 2 million recall for safety issues on the same system.

I used to have a lot of respect for him. Now, it's just repulsion.

[0] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/tesla-fights-aut...

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#146

Post by oblio »

WirelessGigabit wrote: post #130
peteradio wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I heard a story about a guy who is used to chewing tobacco while driving and would crack open the door and spit while moving at speed. He tried doing this in his son's new jeep and the car immediately slammed on the brakes and nearly caused an accident. Obviously cracking the door to spit out the bottom isn't too safe but slamming on the brakes? What why?

If that functionality was around sooner we wouldn't have lost Antony Yelchin.

Technically I think they fixed this by having cars auto-shift from N to P if the car is not moved for longer than N seconds.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#147

Post by kccqzy »

grepfru_it wrote: post #110
freedomben wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah agreed, I'm not against all safety features. That one seems like a pretty straight forward safety solution though. If an auto transmission is still in gear, the parking break is on, and the key fob has left the vehicle, I think an attention-getting noise is appropriate in that case.

Both my 2013 and 2014 cars will loudly announce the car is still in gear if you open the door at any speed, including stopped.

My car automatically shifts to Park when the driver side door is opened if it is stopped. It does this even if it is in Neutral. The car wash person was very unhappy about it, until I offered to sit inside to make sure it stays in Neutral

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#148

Post by multimoon »

MattRix wrote: post #57
freedomben wrote: post #28

I really wonder where we're headed (in general, not specifically with Teslas) regarding technologies requirements to "do enough to prevent misuse." These requirements are already a major thorn in my side. My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus o…

I feel like all of these are minor annoyances compared to the more serious safety issues they are trying to prevent. I feel like you are underestimating how stupid the average user is… and especially how stupid the most stupid users are.

We have a drivers exam in one form or another in nearly every country that is intended to certify and evaluate your ability to pilot a vehicle. While it doesn’t always, it should include all facets of driving and the car shouldn’t need to hold your hand. I strongly believe that this hand holding cars are required to do now just lowers the average skill of new drivers.

A great example of this is an alarming amount of new drivers are absolutely incapable of backing a vehicle up unguided on mirrors alone, they rely solely on the backup camera and it was never a skill they had to learn.

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#149

Post by oblio »

Closi wrote: post #55
fundatus wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not comparable at all. Airplanes are flown by trained professionals who know exactly what Autopilot can and cannot do. Regular consumers don't know these differences though and Tesla deliberately uses this ambiguity to deceive their own customers, who expect a "fully self driving" car.

And we don't expect drivers to be adequately trained and get a licence? I disagree with calling the top level of Autopilot "FSD" by the way - I think that is misleading. But Autopilot - I think that's a fair term personally considering the context and historical use.

> And we don't expect drivers to be adequately trained and get a licence?

At the level of airline pilots???

This discussion has happened many, many times here on HN. Tesla's marketing is extremely misleading (and it's not the only case).

Re: Tesla Recalls 2M Cars to Fix Autopilot Safety Flaws

#150

Post by _ea1k »

freedomben wrote: post #28

I really wonder where we're headed (in general, not specifically with Teslas) regarding technologies requirements to "do enough to prevent misuse." These requirements are already a major thorn in my side. My car has sensors to detect when a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt and to blast an ear-hurting alarm directly at the driver. It's so loud that it's actually a safety issue in itself because it's hard to focus o…

> Then of course there is the complete disabling of the in-car navigation controls while moving, so my passenger can't configure the map while I'm driving

Tesla allows this and a lot of other things. TBH, I'm shocked that NHTSA hasn't made them stop, given how quickly they've intervened when passengers were allowed to play solitaire on the screen in drive. :)

I understand the reasoning, but it is all a bit weird given that people have a phone that they can use instead. And unfortunately, they do resort to the phone pretty regularly.

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