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Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

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Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#961

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t what happens on PC And there’s no reason to think it will happen here. You might have a few stores but they will largely compete with each other, reduce prices, and offer freebies. Fuck the App Store. I want to use steam.

It's exactly what happened on PC. Want to install Starcraft? Have to use Battle.net. Want to install Fortnite? Have to use the Epic Store.

That’s an incredibly small minority of games, the latter of which is the flagship product of a major store owner.

Wildly different claim from “every game will have its own store”

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#962
post #882

I consider HN users to be smarter and rational than average internet crowd. Surprised to see folks here comparing the Google Apple store to other business models like Starbucks, Donut shops, Restaurants? does not make sense to me. Consumers have a choice to switch all other businesses but not the mobile app stores. I can live without Starbucks or Netflix if I want to, or switch to different providers if needed. But t…

The average person needs safeguards to prevent them from being tricked into installing malware by seemingly trustworthy black hats. They should not be given devices that lack safeguards. That means having a gatekeeper that curates things. Be it Apple or Google, a gate keeper is a necessity for security. Even for non-average people, gatekeepers like Gentoo's or Debian's package maintainer(s) do a great deal of good.

My friend’s 11 year old plays games on his iPhone, downloaded from the Apple App Store.

I spent a few minutes looking over his shoulder.

A bit of gameplay followed by increasing amounts of gambling for power ups and constant reminders to buy power ups. This should be absolutely illegal.

Dark patterns upon dark patterns manipulating the kid to squeeze his parents for real money, by habituating gambling habits and normalizing a horrible experience.

Apple will never address these issues because these games make them truckloads of money.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#964
post #894

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is not to blame for the fact that your bank won't trust you to verify an apk signature. There's no fundamental need for the OS vendor to oversee app distribution.

Definitely. Blackhats are much better at overseeing application distribution than the OS vendor. :P In all seriousness, you already have to trust the OS vendor not to be trying to do bad things. Having them oversee software distribution at least does not increase the number of organizations you need to trust. If you have someone else do it, you will be opening the door to black hats that will be clamoring to take tha…

Trust is a Social/People problem that most techies are uniquely unequipped to scalably solve.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#965

I consider HN users to be smarter and rational than average internet crowd. Surprised to see folks here comparing the Google Apple store to other business models like Starbucks, Donut shops, Restaurants? does not make sense to me. Consumers have a choice to switch all other businesses but not the mobile app stores. I can live without Starbucks or Netflix if I want to, or switch to different providers if needed. But t…

Customers don't necessarily want a choice. Sometimes choice equates to complexity, if it doesn't work for you, don't use the product. Apple is very well known (and probably very successful) for limiting choice, in product lines and features. IMO Android devices are already open enough - there are alternative app stores and you can sideload apps. Banks not distributing on these channels is not Google's responsibility.

Capitalism without competition isn't capitalism; it's exploitation without competition, innovation is slowly strangled if there is no free market, the wealth in the market accretes upwards to those who control the market; i.e. those businesses which do not have competition

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#966
post #882

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average person needs safeguards to prevent them from being tricked into installing malware by seemingly trustworthy black hats. They should not be given devices that lack safeguards. That means having a gatekeeper that curates things. Be it Apple or Google, a gate keeper is a necessity for security. Even for non-average people, gatekeepers like Gentoo's or Debian's package maintainer(s) do a great deal of good.

My friend’s 11 year old plays games on his iPhone, downloaded from the Apple App Store. I spent a few minutes looking over his shoulder. A bit of gameplay followed by increasing amounts of gambling for power ups and constant reminders to buy power ups. This should be absolutely illegal. Dark patterns upon dark patterns manipulating the kid to squeeze his parents for real money, by habituating gambling habits and norm…

Shouldn’t your friend be monitoring his kid’s usage? Why is everything always some government/capitalist entity’s responsibility?

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#967
post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't preventing anyone from buying a competitor's donuts. At one point I had both an Apple and a Google Android phone. Apple preventing other app stores on iOS is more like Starbucks preventing Peet's from coming into its stores to sell its coffee. That's not monopolistic behavior.

> At one point I had both an Apple and a Google Android phone. What percentage of people do you suppose carry two different phones in their pockets? Is this something you reasonably expect the majority of people to do? > Apple preventing other app stores on iOS is more like Starbucks preventing Peet's from coming into its stores to sell its coffee. Just look at your own words. Preventing other stores is like preventi…

It's not preventing other stores period. It's preventing other stores in their store. You're arguing against a point I didn't make.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#968
post #877

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” — Jeremiah 1:5

If anything, that sounds like it's saying life begins _before_ conception, not at conception. By that logic, it's also murder to wear a condom or pull out

Correct

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#969

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be noted that this was a jury decision. Juries are instructed on the relevant law, but ultimately they can give back whatever answer they want, for whatever reason they want. So while we can speculate why the answer came back as it did... and that speculation may be correct if the jury was following instructions, we won't know for sure unless someone on the jury chooses to come forward and explain their dec…

I always wondered how the hell jury system works and how the hell they can put matters like this, or any matter for that matter, in the hands of a jury? Jury system seems so arbitrary to me. There is no explanation - no basis - just “we felt like this”, or rather “whatever, we want to do just do this”.

It isn't quite that chaotic. The attorneys will negotiate and work with the judge to figure out how to instruct the jury. And before the jury goes to deliberate on the decision, they are given fairly detailed instructions on what the law is, what evidence to consider, and sometimes what to specifically not consider.

As the other posters said, most jurisdictions follow specific recommendations on avoiding telling the jury to do whatever they want. And different jurisdictions have different rules on whether or not the jury can truly redefine the law or facts. Some places have that ingrained in their state constitution, but most do not. And civil vs. criminals trials also have different rules. And where I live, there are even different rules for specific types of civil trials.

It really is all fairly complex, hence every trial will give a specific set of instructions to that jury. And that is also why an attorney in one jurisdiction might not be correct on how the details work in another one. (Although the gist of it all will be the same.)

At the same time, this is also why we don't know for sure what the jury said or thought. We can get all their instructions - those are public record. But the actual deliberation is not.

As always, IANAL. Other commenters already seem to be annoyed at my layman's take on it all, but this is what I know from being a law school dropout and having served on juries.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#970

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend’s 11 year old plays games on his iPhone, downloaded from the Apple App Store. I spent a few minutes looking over his shoulder. A bit of gameplay followed by increasing amounts of gambling for power ups and constant reminders to buy power ups. This should be absolutely illegal. Dark patterns upon dark patterns manipulating the kid to squeeze his parents for real money, by habituating gambling habits and norm…

Shouldn’t your friend be monitoring his kid’s usage? Why is everything always some government/capitalist entity’s responsibility?

You could say the same about the post above it.

Why is it different?

Having safer defaults is fine, but why is there no way for alternatives to exist? (30% of all revenue is why BTW)

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