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Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

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Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#831

Post by deepsun »

shagie wrote: post #530
deepsun wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... anticompetitive behavior on android by paying off companies to not produce third party app stores What if they didn't just pay off, but forcefully forbid it, wouldn't it be anticompetitive? Basically, as Apple does on iOS.

Read the complaint against Microsoft from back in the day - https://www.justice.gov/atr/complaint-us-v-microsoft-corp Consider how many of those items apply to Google's behavior and how many apply to Apple's. That Apple is the only way to get the hardware or software for their products (compare to getting Google software licensed on Samsung) is a very important distinction.

At some point in time, the only way to get a phone hardware was Bell Telephone Company. That did constitute a monopoly:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_the_Bell_System

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#832

Post by scarface_74 »

thfuran wrote: post #609
scarface_74 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just had a coworker say that he surreptitiously installed an app on his son’s phone that allowed him to see everything his son was doing remotely and listen in to his son’s conversations. He showed it to us in action.

That's like saying Linux is insecure because sudo exists.

Yes and because of Linux’s “openness” it’s being used by most people as their main desktop OS and in the US 60% of the market are buying iPhones. Have you thought that their priorities aren’t the same as yours?

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#833

Post by dcow »

michaelt wrote: post #749
ralfd wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it statistically insignificant? My guess would be that sooner or later most subscribers are long term customers.

Depends on what type of subscription business it is. I've heard meal kit companies like Hello Fresh lose 90% of their customers in less than 12 months, as the generous new customer discount vouchers tail off. (Not that meal kit companies would be paying Apple 30%)

Meal kit companies don’t pay the 30% because the payment is for a service that is delivered outside the app. Uber doesn't pay it either. It’s a stupid loophole apple built in that all but proves the 30% cut is ridiculous and would never work in the real world.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#834

Post by lookACamel »

notnullorvoid wrote: post #827
throwaway18636 wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a dev, I absolutely prefer Apple’s model of locked-down walled garden. HN has no idea about all the grandmas and people who are busy with their jobs and kids, aka majority of the population. I can’t imagine the magnitude of digital fraud and scams that would happen if Apple devices weren’t a walled garden. My only dissatisfaction is that I can’t develop for iOS without buying a Mac and a developer account, but I a…

How does allowing 3rd party app stores negatively affect the elderly? Just like Android the ability to install 3rd party apps and stores would likely be off by default and you'd need to enable it in the settings. And even after enabling it installing something gives you a pretty clear warning that what you're doing could be dangerous. If that's not enough warning for someone then they probably shouldn't have a smart…

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/the-screen-started-mo...

There have been many such cases.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#836

Post by aaomidi »

Shish2k wrote: post #215
aaomidi wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So random websites I go to are now gonna be able to take over my phone? Why aren’t we seeing this scale of attacks using JavaScript?

Javascript was designed to be secure-by-default, and it takes a vast amount of effort to keep it that way Native apps were designed to be powerful-by-default, and the amount of effort to bolt security on after the fact is orders of magnitude more

> Javascript was designed to be secure-by-default

It absolutely wasn't, lol?

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#837

Post by guru4consulting »

I consider HN users to be smarter and rational than average internet crowd. Surprised to see folks here comparing the Google Apple store to other business models like Starbucks, Donut shops, Restaurants? does not make sense to me. Consumers have a choice to switch all other businesses but not the mobile app stores. I can live without Starbucks or Netflix if I want to, or switch to different providers if needed. But there's no such an option in mobile app store world. My banks, wearable devices, even many government services provide their apps via Apple/Android app stores and I'm forced to use only these app stores.. ignoring mobile and just using browsers is not practical. At this point, the app stores are monopolies and consumers are the ones who are impacted. Let Apple/Google give a top notch app store and claim it to be more secure, reliable, trust worthy (they are not today).. but let them also give other options to consumers if they want to take the risk and download apps from another app store if they want to.

And these are already trillion dollar companies. Why do some people support them to grow even more bigger and more powerful? It's a nightmare to see power getting accumulated into few hands. It's high time they are regulated. Don't treat them with kid gloves. They are not your typical mom & pop stores.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#838

Post by mminer237 »

ayewo wrote: post #604
johnnyanmac wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>only Google Play Protect (part of the Play Store IIRC) can uninstall apps from user's devices with no interaction. That sounds horrible. Why can a store decide to delete an app with no prior notice? But it does seem Google has given more freedom to other apps to install apps. I guess it comes down to if that's still too many clicks or too fear mongering to count as "competitive".

It’s a security feature. They’ve had this feature for more than a decade [1]. It allows them to remotely remove any malicious app from Android devices without any user intervention. 1: https://www.computerworld.com/article/2752902/google-remotel...

Worse than that, I've had it unilaterally block legitimate third-party apps I've installed from F-Droid. Then since I've disabled it, it constantly nags me to re-enable it so it can re-delete my third-party apps. If you want to talk about anti-competitive, Play "Protect" should be where you start.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#839

Post by dcow »

turquoisevar wrote: post #782
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't need to strike secret deals to keep out alternative app stores because they've made alternate app stores completely impossible. If the result of this case is "you can have a monopoly as long as your device and ecosystem are 100% locked down", that's terrible!

> If the result of this case is "you can have a monopoly as long as your device and ecosystem are 100% locked down", that's terrible! The rule of thumb, in a very simplified way, is indeed that you can have a monopoly as long as you don’t actively leverage that power to stifle competition. That’s not a result of this case but a result of all the jurisprudence leading up to this case. And to a certain degree, that mak…

I don’t think that’s even close to the spirit of the law. Monopolies are bad because they artificially limit consumer choice and market dynamics resulting in a product that’s more expensive and generally lower quality. If you intentionally limit competition where there would otherwise be a healthy ecosystem, you’re a problem, even if you have a cult of believers.

Re: Epic vs. Google: Google Loses

#840

Post by SllX »

lolinder wrote: post #279
summerlight wrote: post #198

Looks like Epic is getting almost everything they wanted from both Google and Apple, given that EU is giving their hands to do all the jobs necessary for the Apple's case. Those two stores will remain dominant (>95% share) for a foreseeable future, but at least customers will have a choice. Now I wonder what if Google/Apple decided to decrease their cut to a more reasonable level, around 10~15%? App store/Play store…

> Looks like Epic is getting almost everything they wanted from both Google and Apple, given that EU It remains to be seen whether Apple will comply with EU rules outside of the EU. If not, Epic isn't getting their way, because EU revenue alone isn't going to be enough.

I’m not even clear on if under the DMA, Apple has to comply in a way that will enable Epic to make their own store. Depending on how they intend to comply, Epic might still get excluded since they terminated Epic’s developer program accounts and their business relationship in retaliation for the lawsuit Epic filed.

If Apple is still anywhere in the final process, its entirely possible other people can make their own storefronts but Epic will not.

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