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GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

jalopnik.com

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Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#141

Post by frumper »

mulmen wrote: post #101
dreamcompiler wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect they don't want to pay what great software engineers cost, and even if they did, most such engineers probably wouldn't want to put up with GM's bureaucracy. It's probably kinda the same story with great mechanical and industrial engineers, which is why approximately nobody finds GM cars exciting.

A friend of mine has a 2022 Cadillac something. I was actually very impressed with it. Comfortable, quiet, no-nonsense self-driving capability. Seemed like a fine car. If GM can build similar no-nonsense infotainment software they will be fine.

A no nonsense infotainment system doesn’t sound like the kind of thing people will spend $25billion a year on.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#142

Post by mulmen »

viraptor wrote: post #129
mulmen wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want abandonware in my car. Don't include alpha-grade software in a mid-five-figure product. If you can't get it right don't ship it. The navigation/infotainment space is a thoroughly solved domain. We don't need biweekly OTA updates to add the latest trendy thing. I don't want controls moving around or menus changing based on a perverted engagement metric. BMW "pathced" several mechanical features of my car. This…

I've got abandonware in my Ford. It's got a bug in the Bluetooth stack which makes it unusable with my new phone. It's never going to be updated, so out of 2 users of that car, one can't play media and the other needs to deal with occasional infosystem crashes that require a full reset and re-pairing. You may be lucky today, but as years go by, you'll find some bugs too. As Bluetooth standards evolve, you'll want non…

Well the car is a 2010 model year and still works as well as the day it was new. The Bluetooth might stop working at some point but 14 years seems pretty good. The infotainment system might not even have been new that year and could go back as far as 2007.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#143

Post by bluefirebrand »

kmlx wrote: post #121
ungamedplayer wrote: post #4

Call it what it is.. they like the control of their in car entertainment systems and they don't want external companies taking that part of the pie. It's okay gm, we understand. Let's hope you are able to make a compelling competition to this, otherwise your sales will suffer. Traditional car software is very very poor for whatever reason. I don't think that car manufacturers have the mindset and capability to make e…

> Call it what it is.. they like the control of their in car entertainment systems and they don't want external companies taking that part of the pie. they did call it as it is. it's in the article: > In addition to potentially buying things from GM or GM’s partners through their car’s infotainment system, GM is also looking at subscription services that would be managed through the same interface. GM’s chief digital…

I am dreading the future of cars, where they somehow are worse than a car I could buy right now but also I have to pay a monthly subscription for the worse experience.

The enshittification of everything is making me want to go berserk.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#144

Post by mulmen »

frumper wrote: post #141
mulmen wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend of mine has a 2022 Cadillac something. I was actually very impressed with it. Comfortable, quiet, no-nonsense self-driving capability. Seemed like a fine car. If GM can build similar no-nonsense infotainment software they will be fine.

A no nonsense infotainment system doesn’t sound like the kind of thing people will spend $25billion a year on.

Good for them? Why should a good infotainment system cost $25B/year in perpetuity? Doesn't anyone solve problems anymore?

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#145

Post by nneonneo »

mgarfias wrote: post #16

you know whats unsafe? Getting rid of physical buttons and putting everything on a touch screen with no tactile feedback and constantly changing the position of things - looking at you tesla. All things considered though: im not likely to buy any new car. I'd rather buy an old and busted early 70s boat, and stuff in modern running gear.

My Mazda disables the touchscreen once the vehicle is going more than ~10 km/h, yet CarPlay is very usable. It's got a physical knob that rotates through the various on-screen widgets in a fairly predictable order. Most of the apps I use are also good about keeping their CarPlay interfaces very consistent across time, so it's possible to learn the "tab" order by muscle memory and not really need to look at the screen.

There's also physical buttons for app switching, for volume controls, voice input, accepting or hanging up calls, and for next/previous music tracks, and in practice those cover enough everyday functionality that I rarely even need to use the selector knob. I feel like I get the benefit of CarPlay (seamless access to my phone's capabilities) with all the niceties of tactile controls too.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#146

Post by pmg102 »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #143
kmlx wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Call it what it is.. they like the control of their in car entertainment systems and they don't want external companies taking that part of the pie. they did call it as it is. it's in the article: > In addition to potentially buying things from GM or GM’s partners through their car’s infotainment system, GM is also looking at subscription services that would be managed through the same interface. GM’s chief digital…

I am dreading the future of cars, where they somehow are worse than a car I could buy right now but also I have to pay a monthly subscription for the worse experience. The enshittification of everything is making me want to go berserk.

There's no obligation to buy a new one. Keep your existing cars on the road or replace them with other low mileage used ones.

I bet repair costs on used are less than depreciatiom + finance costs on new, and there's pleasure to be gained from a retro aesthetic.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#147

Post by mgarfias »

brandonagr2 wrote: post #68
mgarfias wrote: post #16

you know whats unsafe? Getting rid of physical buttons and putting everything on a touch screen with no tactile feedback and constantly changing the position of things - looking at you tesla. All things considered though: im not likely to buy any new car. I'd rather buy an old and busted early 70s boat, and stuff in modern running gear.

Maybe you missed them, but there are actually physical buttons in a Tesla, I use the tactile physical buttons constantly, the scroll wheels to control volume / audio and cruise. The other common buttons are turn signals which are under your left thumb and have tactile feedback. What other buttons are you pushing constantly?

HVAC controls: on my truck I reach down by feel and turn a knob. Can’t do that anymore n the Tesla.

Wiper controls: yeah I can trigger them with the button on the end of the stalk. But I gotta turn my head to adjust the speed after pushing said button.

Head/fog lights.

That’s just thinking about it for a few seconds.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#148

Post by speedgoose »

drdaeman wrote: post #104
brandonagr2 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you missed them, but there are actually physical buttons in a Tesla, I use the tactile physical buttons constantly, the scroll wheels to control volume / audio and cruise. The other common buttons are turn signals which are under your left thumb and have tactile feedback. What other buttons are you pushing constantly?

IIRC, AC controls are only available through the touchscreen, not through any physical dials or buttons. (In my Honda, I operate AC by touch - I remember the physical button layout for the essentials like rear window heating, and the knobs have a grove that can be read by fingers without looking).

I understand the argument and read it often on HN. I just want to mention that you can have muscle memory on touchscreen too. If you use a smartphone you probably can write without looking.

It’s a bit the same with the car touchscreen. I don’t notice big differences when I aim for a virtual button on the car touchscreen and a physical button.

For seldomly used buttons, I give a brief quick look both for virtual and physical.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#149

Post by esafak »

alexvoda wrote: post #136
andsoitis wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla software experience far outshines CarPlay and Android Auto.

Wake me up when you can open the glove compartment without drilling down a menu on a touchscreen because that is certainly not what I call good UI.

I don't get that either. The rest of Tesla's UX is so good, I don't know how they botched this. Is it a cost optimization? Any PMs over there care of chime in?

edit: Locking the glovebox is a great use case, but not the typical one.

Re: GM says it's dropping Apple CarPlay and Android Auto because they're unsafe

#150

Post by jonathankoren »

dntrkv wrote: post #122
jimmaswell wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't take much more than not going for the cheapest offshore team possible to make better car media center code than we get. I'm sure most of us could easily do it ourselves in a month or less. It seems like such a simple problem. Play songs and interface with some controls/radio receiver/etc while being at least a tiny bit conscious of efficiency.

The problem is that you need to architect, build, and maintain that system for years, or decades, to come. That requires an in-house software team that knows what it's doing. Building that first version that "works" is easy. Building that first version that actually works and supports everything you need it to, is quite a bit more difficult. Building and then maintaining that software, year after year, without slowin…

Uh… cars don’t really change from year to year. Pretending that an acceptable infotainment system is hard to do, just isn’t so.

The real problem is dumbass “features” (my MDX likes to show an animation of the keyboard typing out all the words a half second a letter, whenever you click autocomplete… for some reason) The real issue is that the infotainment systems are underpowered, because they’re considered an afterthought.

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