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To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

nytimes.com

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Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#441

Post by PeeMcGee »

nradov wrote: post #408
boh wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oxycontin was legal, how well did that go?

Oxycontin is still legal, as is methamphetamine (Desoxyn) and cocaine (Numbrino). They can all be legally prescribed by a physician, although as DEA scheduled controlled substances they are subject to tight restrictions. The issue with Oxycontin (and related opioid painkillers) wasn't the legal status. It was over prescription triggered by a range of unethical actions by pharmaceutical companies (mainly Purdue Pharma…

It's hilarious they likely spent thousands of hours work-shopping and testing a whole bunch of names and ultimately went with Numbrino.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#442

Post by flandish »

boh wrote: post #343
rjbwork wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually don't think we should decriminalize. Just legalize it and let people get pure product at dirt cheap prices. There's no reason to fund crime (drug dealers/organized crime), maim and kill users, push users into poverty, and generate and push the externalizes of drug use onto the rest of society. This is the choice we have made and continue to make a society under a prohibitionist regime, decriminalization or…

Oxycontin was legal, how well did that go?

You can blame capitalism for the problems due to Oxy…

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#443

Post by notfed »

kazinator wrote: post #167
drewg123 wrote: post #110

Nowhere in these comments have I see anybody take the position that decriminalization is not enough; drugs need to be legalized and regulated. I have a close friend whose relative is a heroin addict. According to her, a lot of overdoses are due to almost no "heroin" actually being heroin, rather its fentanyl cut to varying degrees of strength. Not knowing what you're taking, and not knowing how strong it is, can lead…

> According to her, a lot of overdoses are due to almost no "heroin" actually being heroin, rather its fentanyl cut to varying degrees of strength. Anyone knows that who followed current events during the opiod epidemic and read some Wikipedia on it. And actually, it's not just fentanyl, but fentanyl-like compounds that, even if controlled to the same concentration, have varying degrees of strength. https://en.wikipe…

> more than 1400 compounds from [the fentanyl analogue] family have been described

Astounding.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#444

Post by gnramires »

felizuno wrote: post #168

So much sympathy for drug users and business owners, but what about the private citizens who get victimized by these drug users? I was beaten nearly to death (in broad daylight, in a residential neighborhood) in Seattle in 2020 by two men enabled to descend into meth addiction by permissive policies. In my victim support group I met so many people - innocent people - permanently injured & disfigured like me, or raped…

I live in Sao Paulo, Brazil. We have quite bad drug abuse issues as well.

I have helped a group that rescued several people (I believe most with drug addiction) from the streets[1]. What they do, and several other groups, and also government institutes do, is offer voluntary recovery programs that are legitimately very good. You can go there and they'll take care of you, including professional psychologist/psychiatrist support (and medicine to help get off drugs); in the main institution we're working with[2], former homeless and former drug dependents help directly in welcoming people. I'm not sure that's the whole solution to the drug problem, but I think it's part of the solution -- getting out in the streets, offering help to the homeless and addicts, and if they want, taking them somewhere that'll offer shelter and recovery from addiction. [3]

There's one rule in those places: you can't go in with drugs with you. Of course, if the person becomes too violent then they might not be able to deal with them either.

Please, go out there and help (while staying safe too, preferably in a group) -- or help institutions that do this kind of work (like we say, everyone can play a role, be it in a kitchen, on the streets, or with donations). I think it's groups like this that keep things from falling apart.

There are many people on the streets for whom drugs are just a quick escape mechanism, and have economic issues, mental health issues, or health issues (or all together), and a compassionate community/institutions that helps everyone recover is what really is needed I think.

Pretending they don't exist or as a friend calls "shuffling them around" doesn't work.

[1] Our group offers a meal once a week (Sunday nights, where they have difficulty finding something to eat), and we offer taking them off the streets. It's incredible what genuinely caring about people will do: I've seen people cry when you hand them a plate of food.

[2] It's this one: https://www.missaobelem.org/; This one is state funded and excellent as well: https://hub.spdmafiliadas.org.br/ (called HUB)

[3] Other important parts being, educating people about the tragedy of drug abuse, and providing community and support so they don't resort to drugs, and also preventing selling.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#445

Post by sgron »

jorvi wrote: post #402
graeme wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't really address the comment. Decriminalize = production is criminal, consumption is legal. Legalize = production is legal, consumption is legal. The parent comment was complaining that legal consumption made the environment threatening. >maim and kill users, push users into poverty, and generate and push the externalizes of drug use onto the rest of society. None of these appear to hinge on decriminalizat…

> The parent comment was complaining that legal consumption made the environment threatening. What the top comment is implying as far as I can see is that going soft on drugs (“philosophical”, “internet argument”) is a solution for pen-pushers. Fucked up as his story may be, what has the war on drugs really ended up accomplishing? Do we really think amping it up will make things better? Legalization combined with har…

> what has the war on drugs really ended up accomplishing?

I haven't studied this extensively, and I know that it's widely accepted that the war on drugs was unsuccessful, but I would caution against conflating "it didn't completely solve the problem" with "it had no positive impact at all." As a parent comment mentioned, periods of prohibition are generally associated with lower consumption overall (across both legal and illegal channels).

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#446

Post by next_xibalba »

cratermoon wrote: post #350

Banning public drug use will simply criminalize the actions of the poor and vulnerable. Rich people can continue to hoover up kilos of coke in their gated enclaves. Where is a person living on the street supposed to go to enjoy their completely legal cannabis product?

So we only care about either the rich or the destitute? How about the vast majority of people in between those poles who don’t want to be harassed by crazed meth heads or walk their kids past a forest of fent zombies?

Crazy how people think there is a viable solution other than strict intolerance of public drug use. The mental gymnastics are gold medal worthy.

(Also, I know quite a few rich people and none of them do coke. They’re problem is booze and food-just like everyone else in America)

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#448

Post by theklr »

jmcphers wrote: post #82

I live in the Seattle area, which is struggling with public drug use just like Portland. Like Portland, we've lived for decades with very progressive politicians who have lead successful decriminalization efforts and spent huge sums of public funds on treatment and harm reduction programs. After several decades and many, many millions of dollars spent, the problem is, by every measure, absolutely the worst it's ever…

Sadly they never fixed the supporting issues, low wages, inability of affordable housing at pace to keep up with growth. It’s like they just thought giving an aspirin was going to cure the flu.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#449

Post by ethbr1 »

Inward wrote: post #419
felizuno wrote: post #168

So much sympathy for drug users and business owners, but what about the private citizens who get victimized by these drug users? I was beaten nearly to death (in broad daylight, in a residential neighborhood) in Seattle in 2020 by two men enabled to descend into meth addiction by permissive policies. In my victim support group I met so many people - innocent people - permanently injured & disfigured like me, or raped…

Stay strapped. Sorry to be harsh, but it’s not policies that keep you and yours safe. You need to protect you and yours and government policies aren’t going to protect you from hard drug users. Sorry you had a terrible experience but since ancient times people have weapons to defend against any enemy.

Quick addendum that Washington state is open carry, as far as I know.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#450

Post by chmod600 »

jorvi wrote: post #402
graeme wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't really address the comment. Decriminalize = production is criminal, consumption is legal. Legalize = production is legal, consumption is legal. The parent comment was complaining that legal consumption made the environment threatening. >maim and kill users, push users into poverty, and generate and push the externalizes of drug use onto the rest of society. None of these appear to hinge on decriminalizat…

> The parent comment was complaining that legal consumption made the environment threatening. What the top comment is implying as far as I can see is that going soft on drugs (“philosophical”, “internet argument”) is a solution for pen-pushers. Fucked up as his story may be, what has the war on drugs really ended up accomplishing? Do we really think amping it up will make things better? Legalization combined with har…

"what has the war on drugs really ended up accomplishing?"

A lot of comments here have a "Portland was a lot better before decriminalization" theme. So at least some people might think the war on drugs was working out better than the current policies.

I'm not saying we should bring back the war on drugs, but the argument you are making can no longer be taken for granted.

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