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To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

nytimes.com

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Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#341

Post by drewg123 »

noduerme wrote: post #212
drewg123 wrote: post #110

Nowhere in these comments have I see anybody take the position that decriminalization is not enough; drugs need to be legalized and regulated. I have a close friend whose relative is a heroin addict. According to her, a lot of overdoses are due to almost no "heroin" actually being heroin, rather its fentanyl cut to varying degrees of strength. Not knowing what you're taking, and not knowing how strong it is, can lead…

>> decriminalization is not enough; drugs need to be legalized and regulated. This has been an increasingly popular argument here in Portland since decriminalization. It's deployed, generally, in terms of re-criminalizing hard drugs until there's a well thought out framework for safe, regulated legalization. While I agree in principle [edit: let's say I did agree, but my views on this subject have shifted radically s…

I agree. Any one city that gets out in front will be overwhelmed with a national population of addicts flocking to it. Legalization has to happen nationally.

Imagine if prohibition had ended just in Chicago. Chicago would have been overrun with alcoholics.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#342

Post by [deleted] »

rjbwork wrote: post #324
chmod600 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "legalize and regulate" mean? Isn't that true of most drugs? We are talking about what those regulations should be and what to do when people break the regulations.

Probably as many regulations as there are on alcohol or tobacco or pharmaceuticals (which I'm also not a fan of the doctor/pharmaceutical gated access to other drugs). If you produce it has to be pure, tested, not adulterated, with standards for production facilities. If you consume, only in particular establishments or at home, and you can't drive while under the influence. If someone breaks those regulations, then…

[deleted]

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#343

Post by boh »

rjbwork wrote: post #282
felizuno wrote: post #168

So much sympathy for drug users and business owners, but what about the private citizens who get victimized by these drug users? I was beaten nearly to death (in broad daylight, in a residential neighborhood) in Seattle in 2020 by two men enabled to descend into meth addiction by permissive policies. In my victim support group I met so many people - innocent people - permanently injured & disfigured like me, or raped…

I actually don't think we should decriminalize. Just legalize it and let people get pure product at dirt cheap prices. There's no reason to fund crime (drug dealers/organized crime), maim and kill users, push users into poverty, and generate and push the externalizes of drug use onto the rest of society. This is the choice we have made and continue to make a society under a prohibitionist regime, decriminalization or…

Oxycontin was legal, how well did that go?

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#344

Post by cratermoon »

legitster wrote: post #57

Drug legalization is something I have come 180 on (or at least, 90 degrees). Portland did everything! They invested huge sums in shelters, treatment programs, counsellors, etc. ODs have more than doubled, and the shelters are half empty! They are not one more social program away from cleaning out the streets. I think the experiment has radically failed and I'm ready to say I was wrong. While I don't want to go back t…

> They invested huge sums in shelters, treatment programs, counsellors, etc.

That's false. I'd say "prove me wrong", but first, define "huge". Compare and contrast to cities of similar size in the US and globally.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#345

Post by thrawy2to15 »

hooverd wrote: post #88
xvector wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the same way about SF. This whole experiment has been a massive failure.

Eh, all the stimulant use you don't see on the streets is surely responsible for much Value Creation.

A lot of drug users are trying self medicate their ADHD or BPD (the most common), or just their sense of existential dread.

So at least in the case of ADHD some amount will be actually treating their condition with the stimulants whether they realize it or not.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#346

Post by paulcole »

TheBlight wrote: post #83
legitster wrote: post #57

Drug legalization is something I have come 180 on (or at least, 90 degrees). Portland did everything! They invested huge sums in shelters, treatment programs, counsellors, etc. ODs have more than doubled, and the shelters are half empty! They are not one more social program away from cleaning out the streets. I think the experiment has radically failed and I'm ready to say I was wrong. While I don't want to go back t…

Does Portland's program do anything to address the mental health problems underlying much of this drug abuse?

No.

From what I see daily, if what Portland is doing is working in any way, then I’d hate to see things if they weren’t working at all. It’s a very sad state of affairs here and it’s hard to recommend that anyone move here unless you’re being paid extremely well AND you love the outdoors AND you’ve lived in a city with a severe drug/homelessness/mental health crisis before.

I moved here in 2007 from the extremely rural South. The day I moved into my Old Town apartment a homeless guy spit on me! What a wake up call to a kid from the country. But I ended up living in that apartment for 10 years and never once felt actually scared in that neighborhood. But now, I actively avoid that neighborhood and getting spit on might be the best possible outcome!

Source: I live in Portland very near Downtown.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#347

Post by mensetmanusman »

rjbwork wrote: post #282
felizuno wrote: post #168

So much sympathy for drug users and business owners, but what about the private citizens who get victimized by these drug users? I was beaten nearly to death (in broad daylight, in a residential neighborhood) in Seattle in 2020 by two men enabled to descend into meth addiction by permissive policies. In my victim support group I met so many people - innocent people - permanently injured & disfigured like me, or raped…

I actually don't think we should decriminalize. Just legalize it and let people get pure product at dirt cheap prices. There's no reason to fund crime (drug dealers/organized crime), maim and kill users, push users into poverty, and generate and push the externalizes of drug use onto the rest of society. This is the choice we have made and continue to make a society under a prohibitionist regime, decriminalization or…

You may have survivorship bias. Most humans can't handle it being legal.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#348

Post by mitthrowaway2 »

acover wrote: post #317
felizuno wrote: post #168

So much sympathy for drug users and business owners, but what about the private citizens who get victimized by these drug users? I was beaten nearly to death (in broad daylight, in a residential neighborhood) in Seattle in 2020 by two men enabled to descend into meth addiction by permissive policies. In my victim support group I met so many people - innocent people - permanently injured & disfigured like me, or raped…

[removed]

> Prohibition of drugs just doesn't work.

It seems to me like there are places where it does, and places where it doesn't. In the places where it works, everyone agrees that it works, and in the places where it doesn't, everyone agrees that it doesn't.

I'm very curious about the underlying factors for this.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#349

Post by onionisafruit »

felizuno wrote: post #337
acover wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[removed]

Like I said, please go to a victim support group and summon the courage to say that to somebody's face.

I’ve never been to a support group, and you have, so take this from that perspective. It seems to me that the support group wouldn’t want outsiders dropping by to share their opinions.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#350

Post by cratermoon »

Banning public drug use will simply criminalize the actions of the poor and vulnerable. Rich people can continue to hoover up kilos of coke in their gated enclaves. Where is a person living on the street supposed to go to enjoy their completely legal cannabis product?
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