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To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

nytimes.com

431–440 of 1001 posts

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#431
post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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> Prohibition of drugs just doesn't work. It seems to me like there are places where it does, and places where it doesn't. In the places where it works, everyone agrees that it works, and in the places where it doesn't, everyone agrees that it doesn't. I'm very curious about the underlying factors for this.

Yeah after writing that I thought of a bunch of counter examples.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#432
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've never been high on opiates, but I've heard it described as "an orgasm over your whole body". 1) Not everybody reacts that way. I've only ever been given high-end opioids when in extreme pain, but I hate the sensation. My brain feels like it's encased in concrete. A higher dose simply puts me to sleep. 2) What gives you the right to tell people to not do something pleasurable? Really. Many people have rough liv…

> 2) What gives you the right to tell people to not do something pleasurable? this is a really good question and I had to think about it a lot. I think if all other variables were equal, I would have no problem with people doing something pleasurable. In contrast to say, a strict religious fanatic who vociferously preaches against wanking or rock music. However, I think we can both agree that opiate withdrawals are n…

> for at least the ones who are susceptible to it (as you pointed out, not everyone becomes instantly addicted).

And, see, this is the crux. You are banning something for everyone even though only a smaller number seem to be susceptible.

The problem is that this applies to a whole bunch of things: porn, gambling, alcohol, etc. Why heroin and not alcohol which, in many ways, is much worse than heroin?

I agree that the base problem is that life sucks for many people, and we need to fix that. However, that problem is going to be slow in fixing, and we need interim, probably sub-optimal solutions in the meantime.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm severely visually impaired. I walk and use public transit. Currently in the pacific northwest. My quality of life has decreased so much since covid and when these policies came into effect. I tripped over someone asleep on the train floor and they lost their shit. I was really scared. One of dozens of instances. And the cities in general must become less walkable to avoid crime. Fences around apartments that mean…

hopefully this doesn’t sound insulting - have you considered cities outside of the US, like Tokyo or others in Japan?

Japan is probably one of the most blind/disabled friendly cities I’ve seen. Sometimes there are people sleeping on the floor of the trains too but if you trip over them they’d likely continue sleeping or apologize to you.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Canadian who travelled to Seattle recently and I found that city legitimately scary downtown. The addicts were unstable and violent like nothing I'd ever seen, even in some of the worst parts of our country. Walking through downtown Seattle at night with a suitcase trying to find my hotel is the first time in my life I thought I was about to be attacked or robbed, but thankfully I only had stuff thrown at me by…

I'm an American with decades of history traveling to West coast cities. Portland and Seattle in the past few years look completely different than they did even a few years ago. Both cities have always had run down parts, but now it feels like the blight permeates almost everything. Some of my favorite places to visit have either closed entirely or now have limited hours and require me to buzz in at the front door so…

It really trickles down so much. You can't use a public restroom anymore with the ease you once could. Items in stores are locked or just not available, employees feel unsafe, including my family members who are just trying to work college jobs. It's possible to help people without fully enabling them but too many who have been voted into office don't see or care to see the consequences of their policy. And the sad thing is they keep getting the green light from voters. I quit trying to understand a while ago.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#435
post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Like I said, please go to a victim support group and summon the courage to say that to somebody's face.

I assume you mean drug-related victim?

Because we can say the exact same thing in the other direction. Go to a group that's grieving over car deaths, and tell them you're glad that resources that could have helped are instead going to fight the war on drugs.

Since this method gets such contradictory results, maybe it's a bad method for evaluating things!

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#437
post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heroin is very different from Tequila, so I don't think it's fair to compare them just because they are both "drugs". Prior to fentanyl, what was the percentage of high functioning heroin addicts compared to people living on the street? I can't find any research on that question, and I'm somewhat skeptical that your friend is the norm.

> Heroin is very different from Tequila, so I don't think it's fair to compare them just because they are both "drugs". Very true, alcohol is much worse by most metrics, both in terms of number of addicts, number of deaths/year [1][2] and general damage done to the body. [3][4]. (I'm not trying to be cynical, just stating facts.) > Prior to fentanyl, what was the percentage of high functioning heroin addicts compared…

> Very true, alcohol is much worse by most metrics, both in terms of number of addicts, number of deaths/year [1][2] and general damage done to the body. [3][4]. (I'm not trying to be cynical, just stating facts.)

Is this true per capita?

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#438
post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heroin is very different from Tequila, so I don't think it's fair to compare them just because they are both "drugs". Prior to fentanyl, what was the percentage of high functioning heroin addicts compared to people living on the street? I can't find any research on that question, and I'm somewhat skeptical that your friend is the norm.

> Heroin is very different from Tequila, so I don't think it's fair to compare them just because they are both "drugs". Very true, alcohol is much worse by most metrics, both in terms of number of addicts, number of deaths/year [1][2] and general damage done to the body. [3][4]. (I'm not trying to be cynical, just stating facts.) > Prior to fentanyl, what was the percentage of high functioning heroin addicts compared…

> The second best option is to allow them access to a clean, low-cost, prescription of it for the rest of their life

Meaning after a few times of someone finding black market heroin, they can prove addiction - and then get it for low cost on the taxpayers dime, indefinitely and forever. Even better, the heroin addicts with less restraint about only using their supply will know who to beat and steal from to get more.

I'm not saying addicts are inherently bad people. I am saying heroin users are unlikely to have the self-control to stick to their prescribed amount, every day for the rest of their lives. We all have bad days and need something to make them suck less.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#439
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? Homeless shelters are full, wages are the lowest they have been in decades, and US health care is the most expensive in the world

Available shelter space, housing vacancies: https://www.kqed.org/news/11668623/why-do-thousands-of-l-a-s... https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/editorials/article/san-f... https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/top-stories/story/2020-... > wages are the lowest they have been in decades This is an endless argument. Why can't a person with 0 skills rent an apartment in San Francisco? Some wages are very low. If you can't…

Cashier at Walmart is not a zero-skilled job. The incumbent needs to:

* show up

* not be high or drunk when showing up

* adhere to a schedule

* read

* follow instructions

* not cuss out his boss or customers

* count money

* not steal money

* operate a computerized cash register

A large number of homeless probably could not do these things.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#440
post #419

So much sympathy for drug users and business owners, but what about the private citizens who get victimized by these drug users? I was beaten nearly to death (in broad daylight, in a residential neighborhood) in Seattle in 2020 by two men enabled to descend into meth addiction by permissive policies. In my victim support group I met so many people - innocent people - permanently injured & disfigured like me, or raped…

Stay strapped. Sorry to be harsh, but it’s not policies that keep you and yours safe. You need to protect you and yours and government policies aren’t going to protect you from hard drug users. Sorry you had a terrible experience but since ancient times people have weapons to defend against any enemy.

Yet most western countries has found ways to improve upon those ancient times.
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