Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 1001 posts

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#151

Post by duped »

jmcphers wrote: post #82

I live in the Seattle area, which is struggling with public drug use just like Portland. Like Portland, we've lived for decades with very progressive politicians who have lead successful decriminalization efforts and spent huge sums of public funds on treatment and harm reduction programs. After several decades and many, many millions of dollars spent, the problem is, by every measure, absolutely the worst it's ever…

Is there a measure for how this compares to places without social programs for drug addicts? This is a legitimate question, I don't know if they've done better or worse in the context of the failed war on drugs.

Because the country as a whole has been completely ravaged by opiate addiction. It's not just Portland and Seattle. West Virginia doesn't have anything like this, and it's just as badly afflicted. It may be less visible because it doesn't have the same population density.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#152

Post by stillwithit »

xenospn wrote: post #134
drewg123 wrote: post #110

Nowhere in these comments have I see anybody take the position that decriminalization is not enough; drugs need to be legalized and regulated. I have a close friend whose relative is a heroin addict. According to her, a lot of overdoses are due to almost no "heroin" actually being heroin, rather its fentanyl cut to varying degrees of strength. Not knowing what you're taking, and not knowing how strong it is, can lead…

I think the actual problem is people can’t seem to just use enough to stay functional. Given the legal opportunity to purchase heroin, most people will absolutely overdo it.

So?

Then they’re out of the way.

One or way or another, none of us are getting out of this alive. Not sure where the religious conviction we must save all souls comes from or has any value.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#153

Post by skyyler »

Eumenes wrote: post #140
drewg123 wrote: post #110

Nowhere in these comments have I see anybody take the position that decriminalization is not enough; drugs need to be legalized and regulated. I have a close friend whose relative is a heroin addict. According to her, a lot of overdoses are due to almost no "heroin" actually being heroin, rather its fentanyl cut to varying degrees of strength. Not knowing what you're taking, and not knowing how strong it is, can lead…

Your argument is tired. There is no such thing as a functional heroin addict. Most don't quit after a 20 year on and off relationship with it. They die and usually cause mayhem in the process - to society, their loved ones, the healthcare system, law enforcement, etc. I'm dealing with a very serious addict in my life right now and how "clean" the drug is makes no difference. They steal and lie non-stop. They cause ma…

Neither of you are posting sources, so you're both just talking about your opinions.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#154

Post by lbotos »

boopmaster wrote: post #103
jmcphers wrote: post #82

I live in the Seattle area, which is struggling with public drug use just like Portland. Like Portland, we've lived for decades with very progressive politicians who have lead successful decriminalization efforts and spent huge sums of public funds on treatment and harm reduction programs. After several decades and many, many millions of dollars spent, the problem is, by every measure, absolutely the worst it's ever…

I’m reading there that fentanyl appears to be the culprit. I realize it is a drug, but not sure if that’s even supposed to be in the drugs. Is this really a story of drug dealers cutting the drugs that people wanted.. into a lethal concoction? (Sorry I really don’t know, are users looking for fentanyl?)

Some are, some aren't.

Some people do drugs to feel like a god, others to escape god.

Jack the Bipper by Channel 5 was pretty solid. I'd recommend it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLGRGZTk51w

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#155

Post by hifreq »

namesbc wrote: post #123
hifreq wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assessment contradicts all evidence we have on the homelessness in the US. Unemployment rate is very low in the US, shelters are very often half-empty. Drug-addicts and homeless people refuse help (unless it's cash or free drugs). The idea that we just need to invest more and more into this extremely corrupt industry has no merit.

What are you talking about? Homeless shelters are full, wages are the lowest they have been in decades, and US health care is the most expensive in the world

Available shelter space, housing vacancies:

https://www.kqed.org/news/11668623/why-do-thousands-of-l-a-s...

https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/editorials/article/san-f...

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/top-stories/story/2020-...

> wages are the lowest they have been in decades

This is an endless argument. Why can't a person with 0 skills rent an apartment in San Francisco? Some wages are very low. If you can't afford rent in one of the most expensive cities on the planet, move to a cheaper place, don't become homeless in SF.

Do you want me to solve this for you? Here you go:

- Find a job in Wallmart in Fresno (if you insist on staying in CA): https://careers.walmart.com/us/jobs/0619201885FE-cashier-fro... (Cashier, $16-$26 an hour)

- Find a cheap rental in Fresno: e.g. this studio is $800 https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/719-W-Hammond-Ave-Fresno-...

- Sign up for free health insurance: https://www.coveredca.com/

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#156

Post by tunesmith »

legitster wrote: post #57

Drug legalization is something I have come 180 on (or at least, 90 degrees). Portland did everything! They invested huge sums in shelters, treatment programs, counsellors, etc. ODs have more than doubled, and the shelters are half empty! They are not one more social program away from cleaning out the streets. I think the experiment has radically failed and I'm ready to say I was wrong. While I don't want to go back t…

I don't believe Portland's efforts caused the rise of fentanyl, though. How do we know it wouldn't be worse, if not for Portland's efforts?

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#157

Post by thereisnospork »

mrtesthah wrote: post #115
tiahura wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you’re volunteering to take them in. Good for you.

I don’t see how his comment implied that. Perhaps you can explain?

P is a sarcastic rejoinder to the GP with approximate intent of: don't put down others' solutions without a solution of your own / don't minimize others'[0] suffering because you don't have skin in the game.

[0]That of people victimized by the homeless/addicts.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#158

Post by gosub100 »

xenospn wrote: post #134
drewg123 wrote: post #110

Nowhere in these comments have I see anybody take the position that decriminalization is not enough; drugs need to be legalized and regulated. I have a close friend whose relative is a heroin addict. According to her, a lot of overdoses are due to almost no "heroin" actually being heroin, rather its fentanyl cut to varying degrees of strength. Not knowing what you're taking, and not knowing how strong it is, can lead…

I think the actual problem is people can’t seem to just use enough to stay functional. Given the legal opportunity to purchase heroin, most people will absolutely overdo it.

I think this is a good point. I've never been high on opiates, but I've heard it described as "an orgasm over your whole body". How are you going to allow everyone that option and expect anyone _not_ to just check-out of reality, reduce all their other living expenses, and just live to get high?

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#159

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #121
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the problem is lack of magic pixie dust. If we voted for leaders with the magic dust, everything would be solved. https://iea.org.uk/publications/socialism-the-failed-idea-th...

You mean like in Europe? But seriously, though our GDP may be lagging behind the US, we do seem to be able to deal with homelessness and drug addiction somewhat better.

https://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/9650030/denmark-prime-ministe...

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2019/11/28/in-sweden-bill...

I'm always happy to learn from countries which have succeeded at something, but insofar as Europe has succeeded at things, it hasn't been a simple matter of "end capitalism". The devil is in the details.

Also remember that Europe freerides on the US a great deal. They get bargain prices on drugs+health innovations discovered by US companies, and have an amazing defensive arrangement in NATO that comes at low cost for them and the US hardly benefits from.

Post reply on HN