Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 1001 posts

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#101

Post by hifreq »

1letterunixname wrote: post #87

The root cause in both instances isn't drugs and so infinite spending or (de)criminalization won't matter. The core issue is hope. In the absence of work for the abled and care for the disabled and housing, there isn't much hope and so crimes, habits, and deaths of despair take hold. Without holistic and comprehensive betterment of people who feel ignored and cheated, there isn't much for this growing sector of socie…

This assessment contradicts all evidence we have on the homelessness in the US. Unemployment rate is very low in the US, shelters are very often half-empty. Drug-addicts and homeless people refuse help (unless it's cash or free drugs).

The idea that we just need to invest more and more into this extremely corrupt industry has no merit.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#102

Post by rpmisms »

afarrell wrote: post #96
1letterunixname wrote: post #87

The root cause in both instances isn't drugs and so infinite spending or (de)criminalization won't matter. The core issue is hope. In the absence of work for the abled and care for the disabled and housing, there isn't much hope and so crimes, habits, and deaths of despair take hold. Without holistic and comprehensive betterment of people who feel ignored and cheated, there isn't much for this growing sector of socie…

I have come to the conclusion that lots of humans have a religion-shaped hole in their psyche. It is far better to fill it with a stable, local, hope-giving religion. Hymns are a better opiate of the masses than fentanyl.

Almost like we are hard-wired for belief. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110714103828.h...

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#103

Post by boopmaster »

jmcphers wrote: post #82

I live in the Seattle area, which is struggling with public drug use just like Portland. Like Portland, we've lived for decades with very progressive politicians who have lead successful decriminalization efforts and spent huge sums of public funds on treatment and harm reduction programs. After several decades and many, many millions of dollars spent, the problem is, by every measure, absolutely the worst it's ever…

I’m reading there that fentanyl appears to be the culprit.

I realize it is a drug, but not sure if that’s even supposed to be in the drugs.

Is this really a story of drug dealers cutting the drugs that people wanted.. into a lethal concoction?

(Sorry I really don’t know, are users looking for fentanyl?)

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#104

Post by rpmisms »

iamcasen wrote: post #85
gafage wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Just curious if you'd include alcohol in that list? What about prescription pain-killers? Just curious where you draw the line on what's criminal, and what's not. Personally, I'd rather criminalize the negative behavior, rather than the drugs themselves. Like DUI laws, for example.

This is slightly smarter. I have zero issues with people being addicted to whatever they want, so long as it doesn't negatively affect others. You do fentanyl in the privacy of your own home, then go to work in the morning? Cool.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#105

Post by BobaFloutist »

akira2501 wrote: post #56
deepfriedchokes wrote: post #12

Drug use is a mental health issue. People take things that make them feel good when they don’t feel good. They’re just self medicating and we need to start treating it as a symptom of an underlying issue rather than the issue itself. Same with the obesity epidemic. It’s not the what, it’s the why.

Yet.. there are people who take things to make them feel good when they already feel good. Further.. the idea that someone is going to improve their situation in any other than the most short sighted terms by "self medicating" with something like Methamphetamine or Heroin is completely ridiculous. I am absolutely not comfortable standing by to see how that story plays out, I know exactly how it plays out, and it's co…

The term "self medicating" doesn't imply that it works, just that they're trying to address an underlying issue that isn't being sufficiently addressed by anything else. It's closer in concept to "coping mechanism" than it is to "prescribed medication".

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#106

Post by skippyboxedhero »

iAMkenough wrote: post #84
gafage wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It is a hard problem to solve. Criminalizing drugs and throwing addicts in jail doesn't resolve the problem.

...apart from in every country that does this and doesn't have lots of addicts?

It is quite strange because you go almost anywhere else in the world...no addicts, no-one uses drugs, they find it strange that anyone would use drugs...go to the US, you not only have drug addicts but a whole industry dedicated to offering very knowledgeable-sounding opinions about what should work...it never is explained why the drug problem in the US is so out of control with so many people who know what "should" work.

The only places where I have ever been that have had lots of drug addicts have been places that have tried to decriminalize (for some reason, almost always with help from the police who just want this stuff off their books altogether).

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#107

Post by Consultant32452 »

legitster wrote: post #78
jdminhbg wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Portland did everything! They invested huge sums in shelters, treatment programs, counsellors, etc. Huge sums were collected, but they haven't really been spent. As noted elsewhere in this thread, the first detox center built with M110 money only opened two months ago, and only has 16 beds: https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/homeless/new-se-portl...

While this is true, there were a lot of programs that existed before M110, and part of the bill of goods that was sold with M110 was that it was going to make it easier for people to access existing resources without fear of law enforcement. And again, literally written into M110 is the idea that treatment is supposed to be cheaper than incarceration. Perhaps it's due to really bad red tape, but the treatment program…

There's two problems with these programs.

The first problem is that the people we're really talking about, the ones living/defecating/etc on the street do not want help.

The second problem is that in order to want to get better, an addict has to hit their personal rock bottom. Programs that keep people floating above their personal rock bottom are like family members enabling addicts. It ultimately doesn't help them.

It's VERY difficult to create social programs that help people want to not be ill, while simultaneously not letting them fall to their own rock bottom.

And then consider the position from the legislature of creating incentives for government programs/NGOs which align with the desired outcomes and it becomes expoentially harder.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#108

Post by hyperliner »

boopmaster wrote: post #103
jmcphers wrote: post #82

I live in the Seattle area, which is struggling with public drug use just like Portland. Like Portland, we've lived for decades with very progressive politicians who have lead successful decriminalization efforts and spent huge sums of public funds on treatment and harm reduction programs. After several decades and many, many millions of dollars spent, the problem is, by every measure, absolutely the worst it's ever…

I’m reading there that fentanyl appears to be the culprit. I realize it is a drug, but not sure if that’s even supposed to be in the drugs. Is this really a story of drug dealers cutting the drugs that people wanted.. into a lethal concoction? (Sorry I really don’t know, are users looking for fentanyl?)

[dead]

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#109

Post by legitster »

TheBlight wrote: post #83
legitster wrote: post #57

Drug legalization is something I have come 180 on (or at least, 90 degrees). Portland did everything! They invested huge sums in shelters, treatment programs, counsellors, etc. ODs have more than doubled, and the shelters are half empty! They are not one more social program away from cleaning out the streets. I think the experiment has radically failed and I'm ready to say I was wrong. While I don't want to go back t…

Does Portland's program do anything to address the mental health problems underlying much of this drug abuse?

$1.3 billion statewide approved in 2021: https://www.oregon.gov/oha/HSD/AMH/Pages/index.aspx

This is in addition to the ~$1.3 billion the state already paid in mental health services: https://www.corvallisadvocate.com/2021/oregon-spends-on-ment...

In addition to resources available at the county level ($2 million came from police defunding): https://www.multco.us/justice-agenda/budget-priorities

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#110

Post by drewg123 »

Nowhere in these comments have I see anybody take the position that decriminalization is not enough; drugs need to be legalized and regulated.

I have a close friend whose relative is a heroin addict. According to her, a lot of overdoses are due to almost no "heroin" actually being heroin, rather its fentanyl cut to varying degrees of strength. Not knowing what you're taking, and not knowing how strong it is, can lead to a lot of problems. If people knew what they were getting, and it was legal, you could have "functional addicts" that cause little or no societal harm. My friend's relative was a functional addict on and off for 20 years. She held down a job, paid rent, paid taxes, etc. She decided to get clean only when she had a close brush with death thanks to fentanyl.

Think of it this way: My drug of choice is tequila. When I buy a bottle of 80 proof tequila, I buy it from a state licensed store. I have confidence that its 40% alcohol, and that its safe to drink. It is sold by a reputable company with a brand reputation. What we have today with illegal or "decriminalized" drugs is the equivalent of people dying from drinking bathtub gin during prohibition.

Post reply on HN