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To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

nytimes.com

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Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#331

Post by toofy »

losteric wrote: post #311
pj_mukh wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were they ever caught? This seems like assault (and battery?) all already illegal. Your problem doesn’t seem to be drugs but (probably) the defacto police work stoppage? That’s the problem in the Bay Area atleast [1] https://missionlocal.org/2023/03/police-staffing-crisis-san-...

Getting assaulted sounds like the main problem. Police are a reactive force, they're useless to prevent or break up an assault unless it's a very ineffective (slow) attack

> Police are a reactive force, they're useless to prevent or break up an assault unless it's a very ineffective (slow) attack

This seems like you’re implying that stricter enforcement and tougher punishments are useless?

I tend to agree, we saw bright and clear as day with the “war on drugs” that being more vicious to addicts didn’t work and the problem only grew.

Im certainly no expert though, and what often seems to be missing from these conversations is actual experts who research and actively work amongst these addicted and homeless people.

It’s wild how often we have conversations about incredibly complicated and wildly nuanced subjects with very little back and forth from those with far more expertise than ourselves. Then we scratch our heads and tilt our heads in confusion.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#332

Post by Teever »

infamouscow wrote: post #162
notyofriend wrote: post #150

Singapore has no drug problems. You might think what they do is extreme but it works.

For drug dealers, I would argue it's not nearly extreme enough.

Which drugs specifically, all of them?

Do you feel that the Canadian government should be tortured and put to death for legalizing marijuana?

Do you feel the same for Singapore where smoking tobacco is legal?

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#334

Post by deviantbit »

jsbisviewtiful wrote: post #10

It's really frustrating to see this headline. The officials decriminalized drugs, wiped their hands and backed off from any follow-up legislation to keep it working correctly. It reminds me a lot of the ACA. Officials got the bill passed and have collectively stopped making updates to the program to keep it healthy, but then constantly criticize its faults. American politics are sad in that it's hard to celebrate any…

Who do you think legalizing drugs is going to benefit? What followup are you looking for?

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#335

Post by felizuno »

pj_mukh wrote: post #299
felizuno wrote: post #168

So much sympathy for drug users and business owners, but what about the private citizens who get victimized by these drug users? I was beaten nearly to death (in broad daylight, in a residential neighborhood) in Seattle in 2020 by two men enabled to descend into meth addiction by permissive policies. In my victim support group I met so many people - innocent people - permanently injured & disfigured like me, or raped…

Were they ever caught? This seems like assault (and battery?) all already illegal. Your problem doesn’t seem to be drugs but (probably) the defacto police work stoppage? That’s the problem in the Bay Area atleast [1] https://missionlocal.org/2023/03/police-staffing-crisis-san-...

Surprisingly yes, they were caught with much credit and appreciation to the detectives of SPD. In fact the police were very helpful in accessing support and counseling, and I should be completely honest that I would have described myself as loosely "anti police" until I had this experience.

The issue was simply that these men were psychotic after using meth in an uninterrupted fashion, and emboldened by the fact that the police were not allowed to interrupt their daily drug use or property crimes. I'm very confident that if possession/use of meth had been treated criminally these men would not have been in our neighborhood and able to target me. During pretrial I was made aware that they had been contacted multiple times in the days before my assault but police were not allowed to arrest them despite the fact that they were using/in possession of methamphetamine.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#337

Post by felizuno »

acover wrote: post #317
felizuno wrote: post #168

So much sympathy for drug users and business owners, but what about the private citizens who get victimized by these drug users? I was beaten nearly to death (in broad daylight, in a residential neighborhood) in Seattle in 2020 by two men enabled to descend into meth addiction by permissive policies. In my victim support group I met so many people - innocent people - permanently injured & disfigured like me, or raped…

[removed]

Like I said, please go to a victim support group and summon the courage to say that to somebody's face.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#338

Post by thrawy2to15 »

dylan604 wrote: post #193
legitster wrote: post #57

Drug legalization is something I have come 180 on (or at least, 90 degrees). Portland did everything! They invested huge sums in shelters, treatment programs, counsellors, etc. ODs have more than doubled, and the shelters are half empty! They are not one more social program away from cleaning out the streets. I think the experiment has radically failed and I'm ready to say I was wrong. While I don't want to go back t…

With my personal experience of knowing so many addicts that have been in/out of various recovery programs, I'm totally at a loss. I too leaned libertarian with let people do the drugs they want, but that's back when I thought people were only doing things for recreation. I didn't have experience with true addicts until I was older. I've even played with liking the idea of a version of The Wire's Hamsterdam on the sol…

Just giving a voice to those who do maintain responsible recreational use, because that crowd very much exists. It might go unnoticed since they usually don't die or screw up their lives because of it.

---

On the flip side I've seen addiction become a much more devastating force in recent years and smart solutions are badly needed.

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#339

Post by memonkey »

anonygler wrote: post #264
tensor wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Murdering people does make them go away yes.

[flagged]

I have been thinking about how I (and many others) go to work for a corporate job that has ultimately no meaning in life just to be able to get paid to provide for a family that i only get to hang with on saturday and sunday and if i'm lucky 2 weeks straight out of the year. am i alive?

Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use

#340

Post by chmod600 »

sokoloff wrote: post #197
gosub100 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a good point. I've never been high on opiates, but I've heard it described as "an orgasm over your whole body". How are you going to allow everyone that option and expect anyone _not_ to just check-out of reality, reduce all their other living expenses, and just live to get high?

When Bayer created heroin and brought it to market in the late 19th century, is this what happened? I don't know for sure, but I've never read about that having been a problem when it was available over the counter from a reputable brand. Surely some people became addicted to it (not that different from alcohol, nicotine, fatty sweets, or various prescription drugs), but it didn't destroy society.

150 years ago was very different. If you didn't do useful work, you and your family could be in serious and immediate risk.

Now there's more of a safety net (money, foster care, and ambulances/ERs) which is largely good, but provides more opportunity to enable addicts.

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