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Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

arstechnica.com

161–170 of 173 posts

Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

#161
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is a trial you want dismissed. After that you try your darndest to settle. After all, do you really want a jury of 6 men (ie dads of little girls), a 6 women (ie identifying with the victim) adjudicating this? When you're one of the most despised companies in America? Settle Amazon. Settle quickly.

A case like this shouldn't be allowed to settle. It should go in the criminal court and set a clear precedent that this is not ok.

I agree, as a prosecutor I wouldn't offer a plea. But the defense? They should jump on any plea they can get.

Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

#162
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe some dude who likes to watch themselves shit?

It's pretty common for people taking a sport seriously to record themselves to improve their technique. So maybe competitive shitting?

That's why German toilets have a Hermeneutic stool inschpektion shelf: So they have something to analyze then talk about all day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzXPyCY7jbs

According to Slavoj Žižek, Germans love Hermeneutic stool diagnostics.

>Žižek on toilets. Slavoj Žižek during an architecture congress in Pamplona, Spain.

>The German toilets, the old kind -- now they are disappearing, but you still find them. It's the opposite. The hole is in front, so that when you produce excrement, they are displayed in the back, they don't disappear in water. This is the German ritual, you know? Use it every morning. Sniff, inspect your shits for traces of illness. It's high Hermeneutic. I think the original meaning of Hermeneutic may be this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics

>Hermeneutics (/ˌhɜːrməˈnjuːtɪks/)[1] is the theory and methodology of interpretation, especially the interpretation of biblical texts, wisdom literature, and philosophical texts. Hermeneutics is more than interpretive principles or methods we resort to when immediate comprehension fails. Rather, hermeneutics is the art of understanding and of making oneself understood.

>“In a traditional German toilet, the hole into which shit disappears after we flush is right at the front, so that shit is first laid out for us to sniff and inspect for traces of illness. In the typical French toilet, on the contrary, the hole is at the back, i.e. shit is supposed to disappear as quickly as possible. Finally, the American (Anglo-Saxon) toilet presents a synthesis, a mediation between these opposites: the toilet basin is full of water, so that the shit floats in it, visible, but not to be inspected. [...] It is clear that none of these versions can be accounted for in purely utilitarian terms: each involves a certain ideological perception of how the subject should relate to excrement. Hegel was among the first to see in the geographical triad of Germany, France and England an expression of three different existential attitudes: reflective thoroughness (German), revolutionary hastiness (French), utilitarian pragmatism (English). In political terms, this triad can be read as German conservatism, French revolutionary radicalism and English liberalism. [...] The point about toilets is that they enable us not only to discern this triad in the most intimate domain, but also to identify its underlying mechanism in the three different attitudes towards excremental excess: an ambiguous contemplative fascination; a wish to get rid of it as fast as possible; a pragmatic decision to treat it as ordinary and dispose of it in an appropriate way. It is easy for an academic at a round table to claim that we live in a post-ideological universe, but the moment he visits the lavatory after the heated discussion, he is again knee-deep in ideology.” -Slavoj Žižek

An in-toilet shelf-cam paired with a mobile xitter app would be the shit: a Hermeneutic tool for "the art of understanding and of making oneself understood"!

Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

#163
post #63

I think it’s evil that they would even defend themselves tbh.

Bastards like this being able to defend themselves as best as possible is the corner stone of our rights. What I think is evil is that the firing squad isn't on the table for the marketing department.

Ability to and ethicality of doing so are two different things.

Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

#164
post #123
post #13

Good. Amazon has been happy to rake in commissions for years from dodgy products sold by third party sellers (uncertified electrical equipment, scam flash drives/SSDs, spycams, etc) and then turn around and blame the marketplace sellers when the inevitable happens. Unlike eBay, Amazon goes to great lengths to sow confusion about what it sells versus its marketplace participants. The average user thinks that when they…

I don't think the people buying spycams off Amazon are too surprised when a spycam arrives. If Amazon had put a big banner at the top of the page saying "this is a third party product, it seems skethy af" I doubt any of the purchasers would change their behavior. Certainly no one at Amazon duped someone into accidentally setting up a bathroom cam. Spycams are legal to sell in the US, and it is the responsibility of o…

> I wouldn't expect a brick and mortar store to certify that the products they sell are impossible to be 'used to “infringe privacy,” “surreptitiously record others for sexual purposes,” or “create and store child sex abuse material”' and be held liable when one of their products is used as such. Perhaps the sale of such cameras should be more regulated, but it shouldn't be Amazon's place to decide that the law is insufficient and fix it.

But the question here doesn't seem to be about whether Amazon should have certified that; according to the article, they did, obviously falsely:

> Amazon's Product Safety Team specifically inspected the camera to "ensure" that Amazon wasn't platforming a product being used to “infringe privacy,” “surreptitiously record others for sexual purposes,” or “create and store child sex abuse material.”

Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

#165
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are nanny cams not a legitimate product? If they are a legitimate product, how do we tell the legitimate product from this (in your words) "crappy attempt at covering the seller's ass?" If they are a legitimate product and we can't reasonably tell the difference, why should Amazon have banned this product?

Nanny cams do not need to be disguised as not-a-camera.

[deleted]

Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

#166
post #13

Good. Amazon has been happy to rake in commissions for years from dodgy products sold by third party sellers (uncertified electrical equipment, scam flash drives/SSDs, spycams, etc) and then turn around and blame the marketplace sellers when the inevitable happens. Unlike eBay, Amazon goes to great lengths to sow confusion about what it sells versus its marketplace participants. The average user thinks that when they…

This has absolutely ANYTHING to do with the article. The customer is not complaining, the customer is the criminal here. But somehow, “Amazon bad”

Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

#167
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are nanny cams not a legitimate product? If they are a legitimate product, how do we tell the legitimate product from this (in your words) "crappy attempt at covering the seller's ass?" If they are a legitimate product and we can't reasonably tell the difference, why should Amazon have banned this product?

Nanny cams do not need to be disguised as not-a-camera.

Of course they do. There are countless legitimate uses for a hidden camera. The only thing a visible camera is good for is to ensure that nothing bad happens in front of that camera.

And even a towel bar or clothes hanger does not automatically mean bedroom or bathroom either.

Closets and towel bars can and do exist anywhere, like kitchens, laundry rooms, front and rear entrances, mud rooms, workshops, offices, stock rooms, really anywhere.

They are even legitimate IN bedrooms, if it's your own bedroom. It's wrong obviously to peeping-tom on a guest or tenant, but if I want to monitor my own bedroom when I'm not in it, I certainly can, and that means the product can't be automatically invalid to exist.

Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

#169
post #9

A spy camera that looks like a towel hook seems like a product that should be illegal to sell. For what legitimate purpose would somebody want a towel hook camera? Don't most people put towel hooks in bathrooms? It seems perfectly reasonable to hold Amazon legally responsible for selling this product even if it was a 3rd party seller (not clear from the article). A product whose intended use is to secretly record vid…

“Should be illegal” is not “it is illegal”. So no, Amazon can’t be legally responsible for selling this legal product more than it is for selling kitchen knives

Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

#170
post #90
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot possibly review this in one minute. You need a team of different experts and they need time to think. If you saw this for one minute before looking at this article you probably wouldn't think about this use case - even though it is obvious once someone points it out. So Amazon needs to show they gave the review team enough time to think about this type of thing. Amazon might be able to get out of this if t…

How about this shower head spy camera? Does it take more than a minute to figure out how this might violate someone's privacy? https://www.amazon.com/Bathroom-Shower-Security-Cameras-Outd...

Yes, that’s WAY MORE messed up than the hanger camera. Amazon could at least have a team that review flagged items and kicked out those sellers
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