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Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

arstechnica.com

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Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

#61

Post by ceejayoz »

graphe wrote: post #52
ceejayoz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps most alarming to the plaintiff, Amazon's Product Safety Team specifically inspected the camera to "ensure" that Amazon wasn't platforming a product being used to “infringe privacy,” “surreptitiously record others for sexual purposes,” or “create and store child sex abuse material.” This is the key bit that makes it different from your examples.

Would you use that same protocol for all cameras, SSDs, HDDs, and microsd cards that could “create and store child sex abuse material"? Someone should be in prison, but it isn't Sony, hitachi's or AT&T's fault when their products are used in this way.

SSDs don't tend to market themselves via description/pics as "great for child porn" though.

The likelihood of a towel rack spy camera being used for ill purposes is substantially higher than an SSD.

Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

#62

Post by space_fountain »

gretch wrote: post #30
space_fountain wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a pretty new thing to have online market places with the kind of scale that exists today while claiming no duty to know about the things being sold. If Walmart or your neighborhood mom and pop tried to sell this everyone would be up in arms so it's weird that some people think it's a good idea to structure society in a way where we strip any responsibility away. On the gun shop we do actually require some duty o…

I don’t think it’s new at all. Fb marketplace takes inspiration from Craigslist which takes inspiration from newspaper classified ads. If you went to a classified ad and bought a toaster or something and it was bunk, would you think about holding the newspaper accountable?

I think the newspaper would have actually been responsible if you tried to sell something illegal through them, it happened, sure, but still. Regardless Amazon is a lot more than FB marketplace or Craigslist. It provides the kind of polished experience that one couldn't create 20 years ago without investing a lot of money

Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

#63

Post by thsksbd »

binary132 wrote: post #26

I think it’s evil that they would even defend themselves tbh.

Bastards like this being able to defend themselves as best as possible is the corner stone of our rights.

What I think is evil is that the firing squad isn't on the table for the marketing department.

Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

#64

Post by walrus01 »

scrollbar wrote: post #42

The article links to an amazon search results page for "bathroom spy camera" Here is the first result: "1080P Bathroom spy Shower Nozzle Hidden Spy Security Cameras Mini Camera DVR 32GB,Mini Nanny Cam Smart Home, Indoor Outdoor Baby Camera" https://www.amazon.com/Bathroom-Shower-Security-Cameras-Outd... Kind of incredible that this still continues. They at least give some kind of cover for the use case of a "baby cam…

the "baby camera" part is just the vendor keyword-stuffing for search results so that their product will show to more people.

Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

#65

Post by jacquesm »

bluGill wrote: post #44
ceejayoz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be able to tell press inquiries "we have a review team".

Of course to the courts that means an effective review team, and so gets Amazon in more trouble for them not being effective. (note Amazon is not setup like ebay, and thus Ebay can get by without a review team in ways amazon cannot despite being similar)

Apparently they spent 8 months in court arguing this already. Think about that: instead of just admitting they fucked up they are running out the clock on the legal side. Insanity, that alone should be enough to double or triple any damages.

Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

#66

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

Why can't the third party seller be held accountable? Why do we allow unaccountable third party sellers carte blanche access to US consumers?

The way that I see it if someone is harmed then they are due justice. If Amazon lets dodgy international third party sellers run hog wild and harm consumers then Amazon should be at fault here. Otherwise there is no incentive to police these things, there are victims, Amazon makes money, and sellers aren't held to account. It's ridiculous.

Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

#67

Post by BobaFloutist »

fckgw wrote: post #28
space_fountain wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I also have a morbid curiosity, but is there anything that could have been there that would have made it ok? This isn't lock picks were a lot of people buy them to mess around with and to get back into their own property

Maybe some dude who likes to watch themselves shit?

It's pretty common for people taking a sport seriously to record themselves to improve their technique.

So maybe competitive shitting?

Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

#68

Post by graphe »

chickenpotpie wrote: post #48
gretch wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it’s new at all. Fb marketplace takes inspiration from Craigslist which takes inspiration from newspaper classified ads. If you went to a classified ad and bought a toaster or something and it was bunk, would you think about holding the newspaper accountable?

No, but I would if they sold bathroom cameras. The issue isn't of quality, it's an issue of legality

Have you seen some of the legit home cameras? They're not hard to hide either (according to YouTube). I looked on Amazon, if it was bought on eBay under a different name nobody would say anything. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CKHVD994/ this one is tiny and doesn't say bathroom or spy.

Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

#69

Post by thsksbd »

yieldcrv wrote: post #20

Its just denying a “motion to dismiss” pretty low hanging but it is federal district court, a bit more serious than a West Virginia state court fun stakes

this is a trial you want dismissed. After that you try your darndest to settle.

After all, do you really want a jury of 6 men (ie dads of little girls), a 6 women (ie identifying with the victim) adjudicating this? When you're one of the most despised companies in America?

Settle Amazon. Settle quickly.

Re: Judge: Amazon "cannot claim shock" that bathroom spycams were used as advertised

#70

Post by Sanzig »

space_fountain wrote: post #45
Sanzig wrote: post #13

Good. Amazon has been happy to rake in commissions for years from dodgy products sold by third party sellers (uncertified electrical equipment, scam flash drives/SSDs, spycams, etc) and then turn around and blame the marketplace sellers when the inevitable happens. Unlike eBay, Amazon goes to great lengths to sow confusion about what it sells versus its marketplace participants. The average user thinks that when they…

And I'm not convinced we need a wild west either, at least if it's also more or less impossible to trace responsibility back to the producer. It's pretty new for something like Amazon to exist with the ability to market (through product recommendations), handle payments, and handle shipping logistics for a product that they need never even see. It means it's easy for manufacturers like this to basically get away scot…

eBay is a wild west, but it's at least honest about it. It's very clear when you buy something from eBay, it's coming from an independent seller, and eBay provides you all the history of seller feedback so you can try to vet the seller yourself. They also provide a dispute resolution system through PayPal that heavily favours the customer.
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