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Tesla drivers run Autopilot where it's not intended – with deadly consequences

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Tesla drivers run Autopilot where it's not intended – with deadly consequences

#21

Post by spacecadet »

supermatt wrote: post #14

> NHTSA said it would be too complex and resource-intensive to verify that systems such as Tesla Autopilot are used within the conditions for which they are designed, and it potentially would not fix the problem. So why not just TELL Tesla that it needs to operate within those conditions, and then enforce when it fails to do so? How can this regulatory body be so ass-backwards.

Why not tell automakers not to make vehicles capable of achieving speeds over 50-70mph?

Im not arguing with you, just pointing out that plenty of enforcements are in place related to automobiles and they are all "honor system" and "expensive to enforce", even speeding, which can largely be automated is still expensive to enforce...

Re: Tesla drivers run Autopilot where it's not intended – with deadly consequences

#22

Post by xvinci »

omgmovieslol wrote: post #18
gonzo41 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should probably call it something other than 'auto' pilot.

Nah. Most autopilots in general aviation will gladly let you kill yourself by flying into terrain or stall while trying to climb. They actually do less than Tesla autopilot, since you usually still control the throttle.

While you are right, using those autopilots requires a license which at least in europe is waaaaaaaay harder and expensive to get. Hell I am fine with people using something called Autopilot in the car if you get instructed on how-to, but you are absolutely not. Throw teslas and elons sometimes very misleading statements in the mix and I have to disagree with you ,sorry.

Re: Tesla drivers run Autopilot where it's not intended – with deadly consequences

#23

Post by spanktheuser »

idopmstuff wrote: post #19
KolmogorovComp wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is not legally enforced. Why does the car allow overspeeding? Why does the car allow the driver to use a phone while driving? In the end it’s the responsibility of the driver. (I’m not saying I agree with this view, but this most probably the one behind Testla choice, as well as… cost, obviously).

The speeding one is an interesting analogy and a good question - why not force cars to cap their top speed at the highest speed possible on the freeway? I imagine the answer is that capping speed like that wasn't possible for the initial cars, and so people just got used to being able to speed and don't want it to go away now.

Possibly because there are circumstances in which speeding is necessary? I’ve been the driver and the passenger in a vehicle being driven to a distant emergency room. In both cases speed of arrival was of the essence.

Re: Tesla drivers run Autopilot where it's not intended – with deadly consequences

#25

Post by gonzo41 »

xvinci wrote: post #22
omgmovieslol wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. Most autopilots in general aviation will gladly let you kill yourself by flying into terrain or stall while trying to climb. They actually do less than Tesla autopilot, since you usually still control the throttle.

While you are right, using those autopilots requires a license which at least in europe is waaaaaaaay harder and expensive to get. Hell I am fine with people using something called Autopilot in the car if you get instructed on how-to, but you are absolutely not. Throw teslas and elons sometimes very misleading statements in the mix and I have to disagree with you ,sorry.

I agree, the hype of auto pilot was that it really was magically autonomous. But it's not. It's just fancy lane assist and you still have to pay attention. There's no jumping in the car drunk and getting it drive home.

Re: Tesla drivers run Autopilot where it's not intended – with deadly consequences

#26

Post by [deleted] »

KolmogorovComp wrote: post #11
tmikaeld wrote: post #4

Why does the car allow self-driving in "conditions it's not intended"? It's not like the car doesn't have the sensors to know! Just disable it.

Because it is not legally enforced. Why does the car allow overspeeding? Why does the car allow the driver to use a phone while driving? In the end it’s the responsibility of the driver. (I’m not saying I agree with this view, but this most probably the one behind Testla choice, as well as… cost, obviously).

[deleted]

Re: Tesla drivers run Autopilot where it's not intended – with deadly consequences

#27

Post by cs702 »

To the moderators: I disagree with the OP's arguments and conclusions, but I don't think it should be flagged: The topic is interesting, and also important. It gets to the heart of a question that as a society we must answer: Who is, and who should be, held responsible for these accidents, today and in the future?

Re: Tesla drivers run Autopilot where it's not intended – with deadly consequences

#28

Post by poisonborz »

idopmstuff wrote: post #19
KolmogorovComp wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is not legally enforced. Why does the car allow overspeeding? Why does the car allow the driver to use a phone while driving? In the end it’s the responsibility of the driver. (I’m not saying I agree with this view, but this most probably the one behind Testla choice, as well as… cost, obviously).

The speeding one is an interesting analogy and a good question - why not force cars to cap their top speed at the highest speed possible on the freeway? I imagine the answer is that capping speed like that wasn't possible for the initial cars, and so people just got used to being able to speed and don't want it to go away now.

Because even such basic feat is technically not possible, only on a minor percentage of roads. Even limits shown by Apple/Gmaps are often incorrect, the ones that are shown on a midrange 1y old car dashboard aided by camera+maps are laughable.

Re: Tesla drivers run Autopilot where it's not intended – with deadly consequences

#29

Post by sobkas »

spanktheuser wrote: post #23
idopmstuff wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The speeding one is an interesting analogy and a good question - why not force cars to cap their top speed at the highest speed possible on the freeway? I imagine the answer is that capping speed like that wasn't possible for the initial cars, and so people just got used to being able to speed and don't want it to go away now.

Possibly because there are circumstances in which speeding is necessary? I’ve been the driver and the passenger in a vehicle being driven to a distant emergency room. In both cases speed of arrival was of the essence.

> Possibly because there are circumstances in which speeding is necessary? I’ve been the driver and the passenger in a vehicle being driven to a distant emergency room. In both cases speed of arrival was of the essence.

There are ways to make speeding possible while keeping abuse minimal. For example mergency switch that could allow speeding but for example enabled alarm that in normal use would be to annoying and resetting would be neede. There are many ways it could be done in. I believe car nerds could think of something more reliable.

Also do we really know that emergency speeding saves more people than are killed due to speeding? We give such excuses, but are we sure it's really warranted?

Re: Tesla drivers run Autopilot where it's not intended – with deadly consequences

#30

Post by ericfrazier »

poisonborz wrote: post #28
idopmstuff wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The speeding one is an interesting analogy and a good question - why not force cars to cap their top speed at the highest speed possible on the freeway? I imagine the answer is that capping speed like that wasn't possible for the initial cars, and so people just got used to being able to speed and don't want it to go away now.

Because even such basic feat is technically not possible, only on a minor percentage of roads. Even limits shown by Apple/Gmaps are often incorrect, the ones that are shown on a midrange 1y old car dashboard aided by camera+maps are laughable.

There's a max speed limit in the US. I believe the fastest Ive ever seen is 75 or 80. Set it to that.
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