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New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

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Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#141

Post by mikewarot »

avbanks wrote: post #111
mikewarot wrote: post #97

It seems to me that NYC has really decided they want to collapse and aren't imploding fast enough. There is no sane reason to deliberately devalue an urban core like this . They already face property tax collapse due to an occupancy crisis. It'll be like Gary, Indiana (just east of me) before you know it. If they want to encourage use of mass transit, they should to address that issue directly, rather than this self-…

This will actually make living here more attractive. Most people who actually live in the city do not drive, we take public transportation. I don't want to sound condescending but we'd prefer our city to be catered to people who actually live here instead of people who are just visiting. Hopefully this will free up more space for pedestrian zones and bike lanes.

NYC is currently optimized for extreme density, with a huge flow of commuters into offices that now are mostly empty. If you want it to turn back into lower density housing, you'll have to find a way to trim back expenses to the point where the debt loads of the city are sustainable.

Without the tax income from all those offices, and the surrounding shops, etc., NYC is unsustainable. It's been that way for a while, reality is catching up.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#142

Post by ghodith »

shipscode wrote: post #139
refulgentis wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you frame it that was ($450/month) I'm more amenable, but then I check myself: am I reacting emotionally to "low margin" and the bitterness, and maybe I'm just amenable to that? Double checking myself, the person we're looking for: - [works at / owns] a low margin business in downtown manhattan - has a car - needs their car in Manhattan - has to take their car out of Manhattan at some point - can afford to wait…

Wash n fold services don’t deserve to exist in lower Manhattan. Good take.

Guess wash and fold services will have to start charging $15 more per day, how horrific.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#143

Post by reustle »

kcplate wrote: post #138
windows2020 wrote: post #100

"...$2.50 that will be charged to vehicles from ride-hailing platforms such as Uber..." One simple trick can save you $12.50. NYC is out of control with taxes and regulations, but... When I lived downtown, each morning, the glass of water on my nightstand would have a little oil slick of sorts atop it. When everything was shut down at the start of the pandemic, the constant stream of vehicles stopped. My water was th…

> I doubt they will remove the tax if the day comes where all cars are electric. All taxes are permanent.

This is a tax on congestion, not pollution.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#144

Post by kcplate »

reustle wrote: post #143
kcplate wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I doubt they will remove the tax if the day comes where all cars are electric. All taxes are permanent.

This is a tax on congestion, not pollution.

Doesn’t matter, once a tax is enacted it’s always permanent. At least in the US. The politicians may talk temp, but it’s always BS in the long run.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#145

Post by leotravis10 »

Aaron Gordon over at Vice says that NYC is going to screw up congestion pricing due to these capital projects that aren't going to be realized for years and it's basically a way to make money plus make up the debt load in the short term. https://www.vice.com/en/article/dy343y/new-york-city-is-abou...

Related (now archived) discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37475743

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#146

Post by tarboreus »

RhysU wrote: post #130
avbanks wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When those people start paying NYC income tax (which tops at around 4% of income) then I think we should cater more to them BUT they don't. The people who actually in the city and actually have to pay that tax should have their city catered to their likes. No one forces those people to work in NYC an no one forces them to drive. The vast majority of commuters outside of NYC take public transportation. People can eith…

We in NJ who work in NY already pay income taxes to NY state even if we don't reside in the boroughs. Instead of charging me $15 more to visit, go have Adams ask Hotchul for money if you want to reach further into my pocket. But you can't, because NYC can't elect competent representatives. De Blasio, really? Adams' recent scandal? Just have someone who can negotiate with their own goddamn party. So instead you bastar…

Maybe you should get a job in New Jersey.

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#147

Post by xkekjrktllss »

sundaeofshock wrote: post #135
xkekjrktllss wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's a scam that will backfire and ultimately end in regression. You can't just get rid of cars. You have to replace them with something. Working people will feel the pain of this because the trains are already way too overcrowded. Punitive measures in the absence of constructive measures will absolutely fail. This isn't complicated.

This would be a more reasonable argument if we were talking about a city like Dallas. Manhattan is one the most transit oriented cities in the US. Bus, ferry, and train service already exist. All that require would be an increase in frequency as people leave their cars.

[flagged]

Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan

#149

Post by sundaeofshock »

xkekjrktllss wrote: post #147
sundaeofshock wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be a more reasonable argument if we were talking about a city like Dallas. Manhattan is one the most transit oriented cities in the US. Bus, ferry, and train service already exist. All that require would be an increase in frequency as people leave their cars.

[flagged]

Yes, of course Manhattan is one of the five boroughs of greater NYC. Yes, you are also correct that mass transit in the US — with a few exceptions— is pathetic.

Having said all that, NYC has one of the best transit systems in the world. Looking just at the subway system, it moves 1.8 billion people a year, using 424 stations spread across 248 miles of tracks. Throw in the various bus, ferry and rail systems and NYC is one of the best served cities in the world.

The infrastructure is there to handle drivers who will to leave their cars after congestion pricing is in place.

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