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An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

pythonafrica.blogspot.com

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Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#411

Post by [deleted] »

danShumway wrote: post #404
mindtheagp wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They literally are cross-dressing, not that there is anything wrong with that by default of course. My point was that for a considerable number of trans-identifying males, the primary motivation for their claims of being women begins in sexual arousal from cross-dressing. You can verify this from reading their forums (the r/AskAGP subreddit is also quite an eye-opener), and some have even written books about it. It's…

> They literally are cross-dressing, not that there is anything wrong with that by default of course. No they are not, not unless you start from a conclusion that trans women are not women. A woman wearing a dress is not cross dressing. Of course, you are starting from that conclusion, which.. fine, whatever. Unlike in Tanzania HN will not threaten to imprison you over your beliefs about gender. But the rest of us ar…

[deleted]

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#412

Post by mindtheagp »

danShumway wrote: post #404
mindtheagp wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They literally are cross-dressing, not that there is anything wrong with that by default of course. My point was that for a considerable number of trans-identifying males, the primary motivation for their claims of being women begins in sexual arousal from cross-dressing. You can verify this from reading their forums (the r/AskAGP subreddit is also quite an eye-opener), and some have even written books about it. It's…

> They literally are cross-dressing, not that there is anything wrong with that by default of course. No they are not, not unless you start from a conclusion that trans women are not women. A woman wearing a dress is not cross dressing. Of course, you are starting from that conclusion, which.. fine, whatever. Unlike in Tanzania HN will not threaten to imprison you over your beliefs about gender. But the rest of us ar…

[flagged]

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#413

Post by andrepd »

ayhanfuat wrote: post #24
andrepd wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the whole context, that is not the point at all. The point is (1) that the Python event would be an effective safe space even in a context of LGBT persecution, and (2) that it's illegitimate and counterproductive to prevent such an event from happening just because it's located in a less than enlightened country. Both of those are valid.

What is an effective safe space other than saying "relax, generally nothing happens"? Are you guaranteeing their safety? Of course not. I live in a "less than enlightened" country and I do know when everything feels safe tiny little things can lead to catastrophic consequences. I experience it regularly. Effective means nothing.

In what sense does not organising conferences in your country help you then?

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#414

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #410
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US constitution and major free speech cases. By the way, I reject the consequences framing. Everything has a consequence. I breathe. Oxygen enters my bloodstream. The only question tends to be whether a busybody has too much free time on their hands to undermine basic foundations of this country. And there seem to be so many of those lately. Related. What government thinks freedom of speech is and is not based on var…

Freedom of speech does not include the right: To permit students to print articles in a school newspaper over the objections of the school administration. Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, 484 U.S. 260 (1988).

It is mildly amusing isn't it. Not that long ago schools were kinda for trying to uphold freedoms of their students.

I do not want to presume too much, but I am assuming you are trying to make some sort of subtle point. If so, do not hesitate to do it and just play your cards. It is not like I can report you for anti-semitism or something.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#415

Post by CyberDildonics »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #414
CyberDildonics wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech does not include the right: To permit students to print articles in a school newspaper over the objections of the school administration. Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, 484 U.S. 260 (1988).

It is mildly amusing isn't it. Not that long ago schools were kinda for trying to uphold freedoms of their students. I do not want to presume too much, but I am assuming you are trying to make some sort of subtle point. If so, do not hesitate to do it and just play your cards. It is not like I can report you for anti-semitism or something.

I'm not trying to be subtle at all, I'm trying to tell you explicitly that "freedom of speech" has to do with the government and has nothing to do with you getting banned from websites or people blocking you. From your own link it doesn't cover being able to print whatever you want in college newspaper.

People not wanting to hear what you have to say, broadcast what you say or host what you say has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#416

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #415
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is mildly amusing isn't it. Not that long ago schools were kinda for trying to uphold freedoms of their students. I do not want to presume too much, but I am assuming you are trying to make some sort of subtle point. If so, do not hesitate to do it and just play your cards. It is not like I can report you for anti-semitism or something.

I'm not trying to be subtle at all, I'm trying to tell you explicitly that "freedom of speech" has to do with the government and has nothing to do with you getting banned from websites or people blocking you. From your own link it doesn't cover being able to print whatever you want in college newspaper. People not wanting to hear what you have to say, broadcast what you say or host what you say has nothing to do with…

Is it one of those weird moments where we push this conversation to it its logical conclusion with a response of blocking protected parties and immediate chorus of 'but you can't block like that!' You can only block the right people that we tell you can block. Blocking wrong people can be bad mojo.

FWIW, this was my last response. I am removing myself from this conversation.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#417

Post by CyberDildonics »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #416
CyberDildonics wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to be subtle at all, I'm trying to tell you explicitly that "freedom of speech" has to do with the government and has nothing to do with you getting banned from websites or people blocking you. From your own link it doesn't cover being able to print whatever you want in college newspaper. People not wanting to hear what you have to say, broadcast what you say or host what you say has nothing to do with…

Is it one of those weird moments where we push this conversation to it its logical conclusion with a response of blocking protected parties and immediate chorus of 'but you can't block like that!' You can only block the right people that we tell you can block. Blocking wrong people can be bad mojo. FWIW, this was my last response. I am removing myself from this conversation.

That's for the best, I have absolutely zero idea what you are trying to say.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#418

Post by spopejoy »

flumpcakes wrote: post #93
hd4 wrote: post #20

> We know that there are some extraordinary attitudes at work within the PSF. A PSF Board member once openly expressed the opinion that Anglo cultures always seem to be the ones that take the moral lead around the world, leaving others to follow their example. From any non-western perspective, this is an astounding idea to receive. > That’s not a solitary episode. We understand that (notwithstanding the PSF’s ambitio…

> Anglo cultures always seem to be the ones that take the moral lead around the world, leaving others to follow their example This seems to be my lived experience, so I would say it's true. It would be interesting to see facts/figures on this. But then how to you quantify morality? The fact is, from an "Anglo culture" perspective we are leading with morality because we live in this culture so that's what we believe m…

> Not an easy issue to think about or discuss from an objective viewpoint, if one can even exist.

Certainly so, if one has blinders to the history of colonialism and neo-colonialism. Of course a global empire is also going to export it's culture and values, and these include things like privatization of public resources and other impositions. As far as western domination goes, historically the missionaries handle the preaching of values, while the armies, lawyers and accountants keep the population in line.

Now, we have concepts like RTP ("right to protect") which is repeatedly and selectively weaponized to legitimize invasions and regime change over "human rights violations" while those same violations e.g. in Saudi Arabia or elsewhere are tolerated or even encouraged.

This isn't to deny that some freedoms in the West are hard to find elsewhere. But there are also numerous examples of people having more practical freedom than in say the US, for instance, the freedom to get quality healthcare without a job and without going broke, which works way better in e.g. Turkey, despite it's bad political situation.

In the case of Africa you have the legacy of colonialism to contend with. Africa isn't inherently predisposed to dictators and populists, it's a symptom of the dire circumstances of the various states which the West has a lot to answer for, in terms of maintaining corrupt structures, as well as continuing to reap the gains of resources mined in those states etc.

In sum, the West can share a great deal of the blame for the poor situation culturally, politically etc in a number of states with fragile/bad political situations in Africa, so to blindly assert "gee, it seems like the Anglosphere is the only folks who care about human rights" without considering this reality is naive at best.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#419

Post by richie_adler »

dijit wrote: post #181
Planktonne wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really a gambit so much as a fact.

I can pick my nose and it's not a political statement. I just needed to pick my nose. I can make a cli tool to deploy something faster and with the boilerplate logging/monitoring. What political stance am I taking? Do you think I intentionally made one? Or is this the same as "silence is violence"- by NOT making a statement that I am making a statement? Honestly, it's exhausting. I just want to help where I can perso…

> I just want to help where I can personally and have fun, it's not deeper than that.

Your position seems to be "I don't want to be bother ever by the problems of others if they don't affect me and my close ones directly". And that's a political position. A RIGHT WING political position.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#420

Post by richie_adler »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #77
Ralfp wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Political pluralism is nice when you are discussing things like tax levels or investment targets, but a lot of "us vs them" arises from discussions like "I just want to exist in the open without prosecution" vs "your very existence is a problem and needs to be prevented".

I would argue that one of the most effective steps you can take in a situation like that is to establish pluralistic institutions where people get to know each other in person, as fellow human beings.

And I would argue that where religious motivations are involved, reason and empathy utterly fail. Dogma trumps all.
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