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An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

pythonafrica.blogspot.com

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Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#21

Post by plufz »

anonylizard wrote: post #12
ayhanfuat wrote: post #5

> What counts as “safety”? Which places in the world are truly safe for LGBTQIA+ community? How much of a city, or state, or country needs to be LGBTQIA+ hostile for the whole of it to be declared unworthy of PSF support? What a cheap shot. You don't need a safetyometer or something to determine that a country where same sex relationship is punishable by life imprisonment is unsafe for homosexuals or bisexuals.

[flagged]

Would they come after you if you brought your same sex partner? If you had a rainbow pin? Does it really matter where the exact limit goes? Would you feel safe being in a country where your sexuality was illegal? No way I would take that chance for a python conference.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#22

Post by mmtml »

ayhanfuat wrote: post #5

> What counts as “safety”? Which places in the world are truly safe for LGBTQIA+ community? How much of a city, or state, or country needs to be LGBTQIA+ hostile for the whole of it to be declared unworthy of PSF support? What a cheap shot. You don't need a safetyometer or something to determine that a country where same sex relationship is punishable by life imprisonment is unsafe for homosexuals or bisexuals.

I think the point was not properly made on their behalf. That said, do the organizers of the conference have any saying on the politics on their country and actually deserve to be punished because of them?

I don't really think so.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#23

Post by phantomathkg »

anonylizard wrote: post #12
ayhanfuat wrote: post #5

> What counts as “safety”? Which places in the world are truly safe for LGBTQIA+ community? How much of a city, or state, or country needs to be LGBTQIA+ hostile for the whole of it to be declared unworthy of PSF support? What a cheap shot. You don't need a safetyometer or something to determine that a country where same sex relationship is punishable by life imprisonment is unsafe for homosexuals or bisexuals.

[flagged]

Not answering for African or Python community standpoint, but surely in Muslim country there are people monitoring. For example, recently for Coldplay in Malaysia.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/nov/22/coldplay-conce...

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#24

Post by ayhanfuat »

andrepd wrote: post #15
ayhanfuat wrote: post #5

> What counts as “safety”? Which places in the world are truly safe for LGBTQIA+ community? How much of a city, or state, or country needs to be LGBTQIA+ hostile for the whole of it to be declared unworthy of PSF support? What a cheap shot. You don't need a safetyometer or something to determine that a country where same sex relationship is punishable by life imprisonment is unsafe for homosexuals or bisexuals.

If you read the whole context, that is not the point at all. The point is (1) that the Python event would be an effective safe space even in a context of LGBT persecution, and (2) that it's illegitimate and counterproductive to prevent such an event from happening just because it's located in a less than enlightened country. Both of those are valid.

What is an effective safe space other than saying "relax, generally nothing happens"? Are you guaranteeing their safety? Of course not. I live in a "less than enlightened" country and I do know when everything feels safe tiny little things can lead to catastrophic consequences. I experience it regularly. Effective means nothing.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#25

Post by KeplerBoy »

raverbashing wrote: post #10
ayhanfuat wrote: post #5

> What counts as “safety”? Which places in the world are truly safe for LGBTQIA+ community? How much of a city, or state, or country needs to be LGBTQIA+ hostile for the whole of it to be declared unworthy of PSF support? What a cheap shot. You don't need a safetyometer or something to determine that a country where same sex relationship is punishable by life imprisonment is unsafe for homosexuals or bisexuals.

Correct. They kinda said the quiet part out loud there At the same time, heck, the issue of 'regular safety' should not be downplayed. Yes, some places in the west are worrying as well, but not usually at the same level. (And yes at a certain point I wouldn't advocate for a conference "anywhere" in SF without a certain risk management)

Perfect is the enemy of good.

You probably can't have a perfect convention under these circumstances, but having a convention at all can improve the situation in the long term. Helping the local coding community will, sooner or later, provide them with additional income and knowledge.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#26

Post by blackbear_ »

anonylizard wrote: post #12
ayhanfuat wrote: post #5

> What counts as “safety”? Which places in the world are truly safe for LGBTQIA+ community? How much of a city, or state, or country needs to be LGBTQIA+ hostile for the whole of it to be declared unworthy of PSF support? What a cheap shot. You don't need a safetyometer or something to determine that a country where same sex relationship is punishable by life imprisonment is unsafe for homosexuals or bisexuals.

[flagged]

So you are saying that breaking the law is fine so long as you are not caught? And that the PSF should use the probability of getting away with illegal activities as one of the criteria to evaluate hosts?

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#27

Post by Eumenes »

ayhanfuat wrote: post #5

> What counts as “safety”? Which places in the world are truly safe for LGBTQIA+ community? How much of a city, or state, or country needs to be LGBTQIA+ hostile for the whole of it to be declared unworthy of PSF support? What a cheap shot. You don't need a safetyometer or something to determine that a country where same sex relationship is punishable by life imprisonment is unsafe for homosexuals or bisexuals.

Do it virtually if safety is an issue. Just like with covid.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#28

Post by Xeamek »

mmtml wrote: post #22
ayhanfuat wrote: post #5

> What counts as “safety”? Which places in the world are truly safe for LGBTQIA+ community? How much of a city, or state, or country needs to be LGBTQIA+ hostile for the whole of it to be declared unworthy of PSF support? What a cheap shot. You don't need a safetyometer or something to determine that a country where same sex relationship is punishable by life imprisonment is unsafe for homosexuals or bisexuals.

I think the point was not properly made on their behalf. That said, do the organizers of the conference have any saying on the politics on their country and actually deserve to be punished because of them? I don't really think so.

That's literally how any 'anti-state' action works, ever. Does an individual Russian have a say in what Putin does in Ukraine? Probably not. But countries are a collection of its citizens. The only way to 'punish' a country is to punish its citizens. Sometimes it's more direct, other times less. But at the end of the day, any and all actions will trickle down to punishing individuals, because that's simply how actions against countries (or any other organized group of people) work.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#29

Post by Xeamek »

anonylizard wrote: post #12
ayhanfuat wrote: post #5

> What counts as “safety”? Which places in the world are truly safe for LGBTQIA+ community? How much of a city, or state, or country needs to be LGBTQIA+ hostile for the whole of it to be declared unworthy of PSF support? What a cheap shot. You don't need a safetyometer or something to determine that a country where same sex relationship is punishable by life imprisonment is unsafe for homosexuals or bisexuals.

[flagged]

You don't need LGBT hunt squads. All you need is the fact that a gay couple holding hands or kissing publicly is unsafe.

"Then just don't kiss publicly". Sure, hiding one's sexuality isn't that hard, especially for a short period of time. But that's the whole problem: they shouldn't have to hide it in the first place.

Home people might know you, but in home country you are against only bigoted individuals, not the entire state.

Objectively, will a python conference attended by an African be more dangerous than that person's everyday life? No. But that's not what it's about. What this is about is PSF's having no tolerance for places that are breaking human rights. And if you want to be part of that community and enjoy its perks, you have to adhere to cultural standards that PSF perceives are essential.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#30

Post by DeathArrow »

ayhanfuat wrote: post #5

> What counts as “safety”? Which places in the world are truly safe for LGBTQIA+ community? How much of a city, or state, or country needs to be LGBTQIA+ hostile for the whole of it to be declared unworthy of PSF support? What a cheap shot. You don't need a safetyometer or something to determine that a country where same sex relationship is punishable by life imprisonment is unsafe for homosexuals or bisexuals.

At the same time, software should not be tied to politics. People should be able to hold different political views while taking part in software conferences.
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