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Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

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Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#761
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative phones outside the duopoly exist. Sent from my Librem 5.

Have Purism solved the problem where it will randomly burn through an entire battery charge in an hour? That basically makes it a non-option for the overwhelming majority of people, and it was still an issue 6 months ago. I really want to like the Librem but it's hard to justify the price tag when you're going to have to carry another phone around with you anyway.

I don't have such issue. The battery is sufficient for one day unless I use the phone heavily.

Edit: Actually it did happen when I opened a Firefox tab with a heavy js and left it open with deactivated suspend, which you shouldn't do on any phone (and even then it's more than a couple of hours).

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would third-party clients _increase_ security (other than indirectly, by people using SMS less)? On the contrary, third-party clients is a gigantic security hole, since Apple can't even know if a client app is spying on users.

> On the contrary, third-party clients is a gigantic security hole, since Apple can't even know if a client app is spying on users. Security isn't about Apple knowing if an app is spying on users, but about THE USERS knowing that nobody is spying on them. At best a third party iMessage client can only be as secure as iMessage itself because the back end is still closed and has no transparency, so it's the weakest lin…

> Security isn't about Apple knowing if an app is spying on users, but about THE USERS knowing that nobody is spying on them.

True, but Apple caters specifically to a consumer base that can't know this and does not want to think about this. Whether this is health or sustainable in the future is another matter.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#763

Seems to be back now for original beeper, although not yet for beeper mini, the app in question (beeper ceo just sent out a global message). Your move, Apple...

Latest updates from Beeper as of two hours ago:

### Beeper Mini - fix coming soon

Our fix for Beeper Mini is still in the works. It’s very close, and just a matter of a bit more time and effort.

In the meantime, we have deregistered your phone numbers from iMessage so your friends can still text you. Sorry, you’re temporarily a green bubble again. Annoyingly, the iPhone Messages app ‘remembers’ that you were a blue bubble for 6-24 hours before falling back to SMS, so it’s possible that some messages will not be delivered during this period.

Also, we are extending your 7 day trial by one additional week.

I just want to say thank you for bearing with us through this wild day (week!). I feel awful about important messages you may have missed today because our iMessage connection stopped working. My sincere apologies for this.

Tomorrow is a new day. Onwards!

### Beeper Cloud - iMessage works again!

I am very proud to say that iMessage is now working again on Beeper Cloud. After a Herculean effort from my amazing colleagues, our iMessage bridge is back in action. Unfortunately, messages received during the outage are not recoverable.

If you have a Mac or iPhone, you may see an alert that a new device has been added to your account. This due to the bridge update. The update is rolling out over the next hour.

And...it's not working for everyone yet. We're going to call it a night and get back to it tomorrow.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use WhatsApp - it works on both platforms.

WhatsApp (meta / facebook) acts exactly like apple here: they're sending cease and desist letters to OSS projects. Better use matrix which is an open protocol.

Like ActivityPub ???. Problem is public mindshare and adoption.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#765
post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also at severe risk of ruining the fun for numerous other hacker-spirit communities like hackintosh or opencore. Apple can come down on this in ways that potentially make it much more difficult for hackintosh to operate, or for people to update their legitimate apple systems after the end of official support. Which was pointed out in those threads too. See also geohot taking some other PS3 exploits that were alr…

[flagged]

No, it's "geohot unwise, Sony bad".

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#766
post #440
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It’s untenable that there’s unsanctioned client software for a messaging platform for which privacy and security are a primary feature. I don't follow this logic at all. Shouldn't supporting thirdparty clients be desirable if security is a primary feature in the interest of transparency? Especially if the reference client is proprietary and undocumented.

No need for transparency here. Just know that no one has broken the encryption is all you need. Also you likely will not know if beeper sends a copy of your messages to their servers to sell, but who would you trust more won’t sell your info, beeper or Apple?

Beeper was acquired by Automattic about a month ago.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#767
post #744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use WhatsApp - it works on both platforms.

The hacker spirit uses Signal. Promoting WhatsApp over the more open community-supported alternative is worse than gloating over Beeper.

I would very much prefer to use something other than WhatsApp (especially as Facebook has banned me for life from all their other apps), but my attempts keep failing.

My wife won't use Signal because it includes a crypto wallet and crypto transactions are taxable.

Matrix/Element would be my preferred option, but it causes so many security or encryption related issues that it has scared off everyone I tried using it with. Nobody knows what to do with the incessant popups demanding to "verify" something or other. Nobody (including myself) knows why older messages often can't be decrypted.

Telegram is less secure than WhatsApp.

Threema is not free, which makes it difficult for me to ask people to install it. It's not open source either.

iMessage is Apple only.

So what's left besides WhatsApp?

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#768
post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where is the hacker spirit here? The hacker spirit is the fun of reverse engineering. The hacker spirit is about personal use. It's not expecting to be able to turn it into a business , or a popular app, that wouldn't quickly be shut down. That's just common sense. > Myself for example owns a Macbook, but an Android phone. Am I not allowed to use iMessage? I paid the toll. Of course you can. It's sitting there on y…

It’s also at severe risk of ruining the fun for numerous other hacker-spirit communities like hackintosh or opencore. Apple can come down on this in ways that potentially make it much more difficult for hackintosh to operate, or for people to update their legitimate apple systems after the end of official support. Which was pointed out in those threads too. See also geohot taking some other PS3 exploits that were alr…

All these activities live in a grey area: "We are breaking some rules, but in such a small-time way that the big guys don't bother enforcing the them". Fly below radars, and you will have your small joys for indefinitely long.

This raises the question: is that a space worth inhabiting? Are hackintosh or homebrew PlayStation games worth it, compared to more open platforms where you are not breaking ToS?

Answers, of course, differ! But the question is worth asking.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#769

Where is the hacker spirit here? The number of Apple apologists that have crawled out to say "see? I told you so!!" is saddening. It is a bit dicey when you're charging for it, but since Mini was entirely client-side it would be feasible for a free version to exist. Apple claims iMessage is E2EE, do we have proof they aren't siphoning the messages from the client once it's been decrypted? The level of trust we have t…

> Where is the hacker spirit here?

I'm torn on this. Is it following the hacker spirit to get more people plugged into Apple's closed ecosystem? Maybe? Maybe not? Reverse engineering a proprietary protocol is certainly hacker-y. But building a business around that -- essentially charging people to put more load onto someone else's infrastructure, who have to bear the costs (even a rich behemoth like Apple) -- I'm not sure that qualifies. If we were talking about some open source project that was releasing this app to F-Droid, maybe it'd be more clear?

> The number of Apple apologists that have crawled out to say "see? I told you so!!"

I don't think that's Apple apologism, that's just "duh, obviously Apple is going to try to shut them down, and probably succeed". It's lame. It's just as lame as when AOL kept breaking Gaim/Pidgin's ability to talk AIM's OSCAR protocol. But acknowledging that Apple is going to pull something like that isn't apologism, it's just stating reality.

(As for the AOL/AIM example, I think reverse-engineering OSCAR was actually hacker-spirit-y, as AIM was a free service open to anyone, just they didn't feel like supporting Linux users, as was the SOP of many companies at the time. Linux users were a fairly small percentage of users, so it wasn't a big thing. But there are tons of Android users; more than iOS users, globally, even. That's not really the same, to me.)

In the context of the overwhelmingly saturated messaging space, I think it'd be a lot more hacker-y to bring something like Signal up to the usability standards of iMessage, Whatsapp, Telegram, etc., and evangelize the hell out of it to get people out of closed platforms. Even Signal isn't perfect there, since they refuse to enable federation in the protocol, and only release updates to their server-side software a long time after it's been running in production. But it's certainly better than getting more people hooked in Apple's walled garden.

Re: Apple cuts off Beeper Mini's access

#770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do the SMSes come straight from the other users' phones, or are they relayed via some Apple server? > what an incredibly bad move it would be for them I don't see it very different from Apple's choice to degrade arbitrarily the experience of messaging with android users. There are infinitely better alternatives to sms for private messaging, Google could say it's encouraging its users to move on them.

From the device to the carrier SMSC. Edit: to respond to your edit Apple is blocking 3rd party access to their own services. Google blocking access to messages delivered via an 3rd party isn't at all the same thing. And the optics of it would be incredibly bad for Google.

Anyway, look. If I had this issue (I don't since I live in Europe where everyone uses Whatsapp) that's what I would do: I would download an app that blocks SMSes from selected (known) numbers and auto-responds to them with a message like "SMSes from this number are blocked by the receiver - Please contact me on Whatsapp/ Telegram/ Signal".
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