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Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

reuters.com

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Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#191

Post by felipemnoa »

peterpost2 wrote: post #165
that_guy_iain wrote: post #144

Why do I have the feeling one of the main outcomes of this is PostNord loses business of deliverying the license plates and other courier gets the tender instead?

That's tricky in Sweden, PostNord is by a far distance the best delivery mechanism (it customer service still sucks though), if you go far up North or rural many other delivery services are hard to find. There is a lot of things to be said about PostNord but its most reliable.

I really don't think this is tricky at all. If Musk is serious about the fight then I'm sure that for the right price they can find other couriers to meet their needs. Even if they had to pay an order of magnitude more money. It would only be for the short term.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#192

Post by thecopy »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #142
SwedishExpat wrote: post #122

This article uses the words "workers' decision" several times which sounds like individual workers are deciding to not deliver to Tesla. The truth is that a sympathy strike involves a union deciding to take industrial action against an organisation to support another unions industrial action. So these workers are legally striking against Tesla too, it's not just an ad hoc decision made by individuals. PostNord employ…

Doesn't the union have a vote to decide these things. So it is "workers decision" and that's actually very important as far as I can tell for the legal dispute. PostNord says it can't force it's workers to do something. So if it's not the workers decision it's PostNord's decision and that is very different.

There is a lot of guessing among the comments in these threads.

It is not PostNord's decision. Striking is a constituional right in Sweden and it would be illegal for PostNord to prevent it.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#193

Post by VoxPelli »

Ovah wrote: post #161
cbmuser wrote: post #132

The article does not explain the background. What relation does Tesla have to Swedish workers? Is there a Tesla Gigafactory in Sweden?

Tesla is refusing to sign a collective bargaining agreement which is basically the norm in Sweden. This has been going on for a couple of weeks and garnered a lot of attention in Swedish media and social media. Sweden has a strong tradition of unionization which clashes with 'big American capitalism'. Swedish subreddits have lately had frequent posts with the comment sections filled with comments that more or less in…

The strike has been ongoing for a couple of weeks but in the result of Tesla refusing to negotiate despite five years of attempts from the union. So it’s actually ongoing for +5 year

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#194

Post by CAT0 »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #142
SwedishExpat wrote: post #122

This article uses the words "workers' decision" several times which sounds like individual workers are deciding to not deliver to Tesla. The truth is that a sympathy strike involves a union deciding to take industrial action against an organisation to support another unions industrial action. So these workers are legally striking against Tesla too, it's not just an ad hoc decision made by individuals. PostNord employ…

Doesn't the union have a vote to decide these things. So it is "workers decision" and that's actually very important as far as I can tell for the legal dispute. PostNord says it can't force it's workers to do something. So if it's not the workers decision it's PostNord's decision and that is very different.

Tesla is invited to the Storting (the Norwegian parliament) for an introduction to the rules of the Norwegian labor market.

https://e24.no/naeringsliv/i/zEpyow/arbeiderpartiet-hasteinn... (in Norwegian).

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#195

Post by emptysongglass »

Ovah wrote: post #161
cbmuser wrote: post #132

The article does not explain the background. What relation does Tesla have to Swedish workers? Is there a Tesla Gigafactory in Sweden?

Tesla is refusing to sign a collective bargaining agreement which is basically the norm in Sweden. This has been going on for a couple of weeks and garnered a lot of attention in Swedish media and social media. Sweden has a strong tradition of unionization which clashes with 'big American capitalism'. Swedish subreddits have lately had frequent posts with the comment sections filled with comments that more or less in…

Exactly the same in the Danish subreddits. I'd assume the same in Norwegian and Finnish subs too. The feeling of camaraderie is nearly unanimous.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#196

Post by VoxPelli »

piva00 wrote: post #133
cbmuser wrote: post #132

The article does not explain the background. What relation does Tesla have to Swedish workers? Is there a Tesla Gigafactory in Sweden?

No, this is only about repair shops. Which makes it all more stupid from Tesla.

But sympathy strikes goes further and now affects superchargers, offices and even Swedish suppliers to the gigafactory.

Lucky for Musk that he picked a Finnish supplier for the Cybertruck steel…

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#197

Post by AnssiH »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #148
throw_a_grenade wrote: post #126

> Musk said last week: “I disagree with the idea of unions. I just don’t like anything which creates a lords-and-peasants kind of thing.” This sounds ridiculous.

He probably said quite a bit more than just that. If you extract just one sentence from somebody's position, you can make anyone look ridiculous. Looking at this from a distance and without picking sides, I can see both sides have a point and a bigger agenda. The actual conflict seems like it is a sideshow to this bigger agenda. In Scandinavia the unions are historically very strong. Strong as in they are mostly soci…

> Also as Tesla workers aren't unionized. These unions aren't representing those workers directly.

The striking Tesla employees are union members (IF Metall).

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#198

Post by that_guy_iain »

peterpost2 wrote: post #165
that_guy_iain wrote: post #144

Why do I have the feeling one of the main outcomes of this is PostNord loses business of deliverying the license plates and other courier gets the tender instead?

That's tricky in Sweden, PostNord is by a far distance the best delivery mechanism (it customer service still sucks though), if you go far up North or rural many other delivery services are hard to find. There is a lot of things to be said about PostNord but its most reliable.

Isn't one of the main issues deliveries to their factory?

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#199

Post by sakjur »

hnbad wrote: post #124
SwedishExpat wrote: post #122

This article uses the words "workers' decision" several times which sounds like individual workers are deciding to not deliver to Tesla. The truth is that a sympathy strike involves a union deciding to take industrial action against an organisation to support another unions industrial action. So these workers are legally striking against Tesla too, it's not just an ad hoc decision made by individuals. PostNord employ…

We say "voters" when we mean their representatives too so this doesn't strike me as surprising even if you could argue that it's not really their decision if it's a representative system rather than one of delegation (where each delegate represents one or more people directly who can at any time withdraw their vote from them and vote directly or choose a different delegate). I don't know how Swedish unions are struct…

In Sweden it’d be illegal if there was a collective bargaining agreement in place and the strike wasn’t aligned with the terms set out therein. The law explicitly doesn’t extend the same protections for companies that don’t sign a CBA.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#200

Post by givemeethekeys »

i67vw3 wrote: post #179

Tesla should crush pesky swedish unions, no matter what. Buy ports, buy ships, buy trucks, buy electricians, buy a brand new postal service etc. The $26 B cash on hand should be used somewhere, instead of usual executive package and share buyback. Edit:- If my comment is not as per HN guidelines, I am willing to delete it.

Why?
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