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Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

amsterdam.nl

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Re: Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

#101

Post by ls612 »

Teever wrote: post #19
ls612 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the expectation is that the government can put up speed cameras everywhere and make a shit ton of money.

Why the cynical take? Do you really think that in a country with extensive rail and a bicycle culture as a national identity that the reason for reduced speed limits is a cash grab? Is it so alien to you to consider that perhaps the country is implementing these kinds of laws to reduce the harmful effects of automobiles with the ultimate end game being the extinction of car culture?

Because I see technology as a being used as a means to social control and authoritarian rule. Most HN commenters are perfectly willing to see this as well when it comes to DRM, remote attestation, secure boot, etc, but magically forget that when discussion of traffic and cars comes up.

Re: Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

#102

Post by Kim_Bruning »

Teever wrote: post #19
ls612 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the expectation is that the government can put up speed cameras everywhere and make a shit ton of money.

Why the cynical take? Do you really think that in a country with extensive rail and a bicycle culture as a national identity that the reason for reduced speed limits is a cash grab? Is it so alien to you to consider that perhaps the country is implementing these kinds of laws to reduce the harmful effects of automobiles with the ultimate end game being the extinction of car culture?

The end goal is not the extinction of car culture. The end goal is to get everyone from A to B safely and swiftly, regardless of transport mode.

Basically if you put Germans and Dutch people together, they'll argue which country has the best car infrastructure. The grass is greener on the other side. Dutch people say you can go faster on German roads, while Germans say that the dutch speed limits make traffic more smooth and logical.

Either way, once you drive out to the highway you can theoretically lock the cruise control to 100 km/h [1] (including on intersections) until ~5-10 min from your destination.[2] That's not a bad country for cars!

[1] Except eg. Amsterdam ring-road which is 80 km/h. Exception that proves the rule.

[2] I did say theoretically. Roads ARE busy and you may need to tap the brakes sometimes. Though... in practice I'm willing to bet that on any given day some number of people actually manage to achieve this by accident. (outside rush hour and with a little luck)

Re: Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

#103

Post by clnq »

Wouldn’t this cause more pollution? Lower fuel efficiency, increased congestion, more half-clutch inching, more stopping, more time spent by each vehicle on each road…

…At least assuming the number and routes of travels stay constant.

I used to drive a 2010 Diesel VW Golf, about 55kW, in Central Europe. It would take 4l/100km at 70kph and closer to 11l/100km when maneuvering slowly. 2.75x pollution diff per km in these scenarios.

Sound is important, but cars also pollute the air.

Re: Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

#105

Post by toomim »

jacquesm wrote: post #96
toomim wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also happened in Portland in 2018, and it sucks, and makes me avoid Portland. The speed limit is 20mph on most roads, no matter how many lanes of empty tarmac there is, what time of day it is, with how much visibility, how straight the road is, etc. It's a blind political statement with no regard to the actual roads and their circumstances.

> makes me avoid Portland It worked!

Your goal is to remove people from the city who value efficiency and productivity?

Or are you saying that you don't like me, personally, and want me to leave?

Re: Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

#106

Post by [deleted] »

jacquesm wrote: post #68
CapsAdmin wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Norway the law is stated such that you can get help from the bicycle engine to reach max 25km/h. It's not very difficult to reach 30km/h to 50km/h manually on a bicycle.

50 sustained is trained athlete level. Normal cyclists can't do that for any length of time.

[deleted]

Re: Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

#107

Post by mfalcao »

CapsAdmin wrote: post #36
jeroenhd wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric bicycles aren't allowed to exceed 25km/h anyway, so legally only human-powered bikes can exceed the 30km/h speed limit. If the owners messed with their bikes to override the speed limiter, I doubt they'll care about the 30km/h signs. Mopeds and similar vehicles (the ones with license plates and mandatory helmets) will probably be hit the worst.

In Norway the law is stated such that you can get help from the bicycle engine to reach max 25km/h. It's not very difficult to reach 30km/h to 50km/h manually on a bicycle.

50 is literally faster than Tour de France pros maintain on flat ground. A regular person on a normal bike will have a hard time even doing 30.

Re: Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

#108

Post by jltsiren »

toomim wrote: post #80
gumballindie wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is terrible. They introduced similar speed limits in parts of London UK and it sucks. It does help with noise pollution but driving in London on empty roads at 20 mph is horrible.

It also happened in Portland in 2018, and it sucks, and makes me avoid Portland. The speed limit is 20mph on most roads, no matter how many lanes of empty tarmac there is, what time of day it is, with how much visibility, how straight the road is, etc. It's a blind political statement with no regard to the actual roads and their circumstances.

It can be a political statement, or it can be about noise and pedestrian safety, depending on the environment.

Basically, it's irresponsible to drive faster than 30 km/h anywhere with a significant number of pedestrians. The risk of serious injury and death rises quickly above that speed, and human drivers cannot react quickly enough at higher speeds. You can justify a bit higher speed limits on major streets with significant traffic, as pedestrians tend to be more attentive when crossing them. But even then, the limit should be 40-50 km/h, as road capacity decreases and noise level becomes unacceptably high at higher speeds.

Re: Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

#109

Post by Kim_Bruning »

dbg31415 wrote: post #28

That’s crazy slow! I can’t even begin to think of how long it would take to get anywhere. By comparison, “The Texas Transportation Commission is allowed to bump up the speed limit in certain sections to 75, 80 and 85 mph, according to the Texas Department of Transportation. The speed limit can be raised if the highway is deemed safe and reasonable..” Also.. you can typically avoid a ticket by arguing you were still d…

This is just the last mile(s) though. At the other end of the speed spectrum, highways around Amsterdam are 50 mph, rising to 60 mph once further out (and up to 80 mph at night where applicable) .

Re: Amsterdam Switches to 30 Km/h on 80% of its Roads

#110

Post by quickthrower2 »

rtpg wrote: post #61
quickthrower2 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Sydney it is one more tunnel! I am not against it as the infra could be used by an army of electric buses that could be a psuedo-metro. Please do that!

Seriously, at least in France the big success story in my book has been the use of heavy-duty buses to expand transit networks. You just gotta take over existing lanes, and you make your main bus lanes have buses every 5 minutes or so. It's not ideal but it exists and works. Highly recommend as an alternative to wishing for metro lines.

It is adaptive! You can change the routes based on demand or even time of day.
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