OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft • Hacker News Board

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#101

Post by anupsurendran » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 9:28 PM UTC

vthallam wrote: post #97

xazzy wrote: post #40

Am an employee, signed the letter. I can't read the article so maybe the content is more nuanced, but the framing irks me. This all happened really fast and the offer was informal. I can only speak for myself but I do have a lot of respect for modern MS, and would have seriously considered the move if that's what kept the team together and comp was reasonable. I would be surprised if most people felt differently.

> >> and comp was reasonable there's no way you guys would get the same comp though? like not even close. MSFT irrespective of how much it wants you is not going to honor the 10X increase in valuation from the upcoming $90 billion valuation. Even if they do, you will miss on the upside. MSFT stock is not going to 10X but OpenAI's might.

100% vthallam. The upside for OpenAI is much higher.

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#102

Post by zer00eyz » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 9:31 PM UTC

joe_the_user wrote: post #83

zer00eyz wrote: post #27

During that whole mess it seemed to slip out that MS has access to all the IP up to AGI. And that has a definition that might be "replacing people at work", so not passing the Turing test fully but close enough. There are some problems that need to get cleared up for that to happen. The system needs to loose the cutoff date, be a bit more deterministic and still function. The whole quagmire around copyright needs to…

Your implication that OpenAI has "AGI" is unsupported and implausible imo. LLMs are impressive, can increase productivity for certain workers in certain industries etc, yes but avoid reaching like that please.

I don't imply they have it. I imply that their deal with MS has a definition that we would not call "AGI". One that has implications that may make cutting them (MS) off impossible.

From: https://openai.com/our-structure ...

"While our partnership with Microsoft includes a multibillion dollar investment, OpenAI remains an entirely independent company governed by the OpenAI Nonprofit. Microsoft has no board seat and no control. And, as explained above, AGI is explicitly carved out of all commercial and IP licensing agreements."

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#103

Post by Tenoke » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 9:32 PM UTC

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #67

> Given the absence of interest in joining Microsoft, many OpenAI employees "felt pressured" to sign the open letter, the employee admitted. The letter itself was drafted by a group of longtime staffers who have the most clout and money at stake with years of industry standing and equity built up, as well as higher pay. They began calling other staffers late on Sunday night, urging them to sign, the employee explaine…

This isnt the board though. This is the against the board side.

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#104

Post by hardlianotion » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 9:33 PM UTC

rob74 wrote: post #49

ghaff wrote: post #30

Is it actually news that 70% (or whatever) of the employees at a hot startup wouldn't go to work for Microsoft even if they kept their compensation packages (which would probably have a lot of asterisks attached) because of executive suite drama?

It's not just the compensation however, the article explains that by switching to Microsoft they would have lost their equity packages, which are worth even more than their salary...

I dunno, the company had already demonstrated its ability to drastically affect its value to the downside.

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#105

Post by zer00eyz » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 9:34 PM UTC

the__prestige wrote: post #87

zer00eyz wrote: post #27

During that whole mess it seemed to slip out that MS has access to all the IP up to AGI. And that has a definition that might be "replacing people at work", so not passing the Turing test fully but close enough. There are some problems that need to get cleared up for that to happen. The system needs to loose the cutoff date, be a bit more deterministic and still function. The whole quagmire around copyright needs to…

TFA talks about a tender offer, which allows employees to sell their shares at almost a 3x valuation compared to earlier this year. This already is a "massive pay day".

The only time that 3x trade would be a good deal is if you think that's the best you're going to do. IF you think your gonna be the next amazon/Facebook/google then selling is foolish. The MS deal may limit or wreck that possibility.

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#106

Post by mrtksn » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 9:35 PM UTC

xazzy wrote: post #40

Am an employee, signed the letter. I can't read the article so maybe the content is more nuanced, but the framing irks me. This all happened really fast and the offer was informal. I can only speak for myself but I do have a lot of respect for modern MS, and would have seriously considered the move if that's what kept the team together and comp was reasonable. I would be surprised if most people felt differently.

Obviously MS does some great things but I wonder what do you think about their culture?

MS is trying to make me use Edge Browser by randomly refusing to let me use Bing chat in any other browser. This makes me think that MS is still evil and will force me to do things the moment they can. I gave up Bing Chat because of this and was using Perplexity.ai instead, until Bing got integrated into ChatGPT.

Another thing is the feel of the MS products is very different than OpenAI. For example, Bing chat again, would have a strange UX where it counts down my message allowance on the topic as I keep asking follow up questions as if it was designed for their convenience and not mine. OpenAI products on the other hand feel much more pleasant to use and don't stress me out even when things don't work as expected, which makes me think that the approach of product design is very different than MS.

Same tech running on the Azure servers, completely different product experiences. IMHO this points to completely different mindsets.

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#107

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 9:36 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#108

Post by andsoitis » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 9:37 PM UTC

xazzy wrote: post #40

Am an employee, signed the letter. I can't read the article so maybe the content is more nuanced, but the framing irks me. This all happened really fast and the offer was informal. I can only speak for myself but I do have a lot of respect for modern MS, and would have seriously considered the move if that's what kept the team together and comp was reasonable. I would be surprised if most people felt differently.

the conversation in this thread makes me wonder about whether the right incentives for OpenAI should be to make tons of money.

Personally, I prefer to make tons of money, but as someone who will not have a say in whether to participate in an AI-driven world, I would prefer if there were non-profit counterweights. Perhaps governments will have the wherewithal to steer things but I am somewhat concerned.

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#109

Post by JohnFen » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 9:40 PM UTC

gkoberger wrote: post #85

JohnFen wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do think he legitimately believes he's doing the right thing though all throughout, which maybe makes it more scary I really think the opposite. I think he's after the biggest payday/most power he can get, and anything else is a secondary consideration.

I think you can fairly ascribe a lot of negative attributes to Sam, but an unnatural thirst for money isn't it. Nothing about anything he does makes me think he's motivated by increasing his personal net worth.

I don't claim to know what motivates him. I don't know him and have no view into his thinking. I'm just going by what his actions look like to me.

I can't distinguish between a thirst for money and a thirst for power because above a certain level, they're essentially the same thing.

Re: OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft

#110

Post by ethbr1 » Thu, Dec 07, 2023, 9:40 PM UTC

richbell wrote: post #64

reso wrote: post #53

I am still so confused by this whole saga. No one has explained how or why the entire board decided to do a coup, and then simply changed their minds a few days later. I have to assume that the individuals involved are under a mix of social and legal pressure to not talk about the circumstances.

The speculation seems to be that Sam was being duplicitous and trying to oust a board member he didn't like. Members of the board compared notes and realized he had misrepresented his conversations with other members in an attempt to build concensus. Throw in the rapid expansion of OpenAI (commercialization being in conflict with the board's vague mandate to do what's best for humanity) and the rumored (now confirmed…

Thanks for the citations.

That was my guess... but only because it was the only scenario I could think of where the board being curiously and obviously intentionally vague about 'why' in the announcement, but still saying more than nothing, made sense.