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Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

reuters.com

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Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#91

Post by eddtries »

hiatus wrote: post #71
piva00 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is not the public.

Are companies excluded from your idea of the public or just Tesla? I'm genuinely curious. I couldn't care less about Tesla in this case, I am just trying to understand how people are okay with civil servants picking and choosing who they render services to.

That isn’t what’s happening here, it’s unions striking. Employees can’t just do this randomly, it has to be part of an organised strike which is fairly rare. Once the strikes in place the private employees (not civil servants) who belong to unions will follow recommendations of actions.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#92

Post by eddtries »

hiatus wrote: post #57
Novosell wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their "duty to the public" being to deliver license plates to Tesla? Really?

Their duty is to deliver mail is it not? Should mail carriers refuse to deliver political flyers because they disagree with the message??

Has there been a strike against a political party in Nordic union history?

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#93

Post by whacko_quacko »

mongol wrote: post #35
eddtries wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, and one is the principles of a large car company from another country while the other is the social underpinnings of the countries entire labour market going back a century

That is exaggregated. This is IF Metall vs Tesla, not Sweden vs Tesla.

If that were so, I think we wouldn't see other unions jumping to IF Metall's aid so readily

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#94

Post by taylodl »

mxchris2121 wrote: post #69
cbeach wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a country give workers more power? By creating a business-friendly environment. The more companies operate in your country, the more choice of employers. Treated badly? Go work for a competitor. That’s how you put pressure on companies to treat staff better.

That solution relies on a lot of things having a greater effect than they actually do. It fits the pie in the sky solutions libertarians seem to like so much. Such as high healthcare costs can be fixed by creating greater choice via lowering the barrier of entry to becoming a doctor. The free market, in fact, is not actually the solution of all of society’s ills. Unions raise wages. Anti union laws and or lack of uni…

- Libertarians assume more job mobility than actually exists.

- Libertarians overlook all the problems with markets that Adam Smith identified. It's as though they never read the second half of the book.

- Libertarians overlook how existing players raise barriers to entry for existing markets.

- Libertarians overlook the collusion between market players and government to share power and wealth between both.

- Libertarians make many, many, many assumptions that are demonstrably false.

At this point all we can assume is libertarians know all this, yet keep advocating for libertarianism because it is they who seek the power and the wealth. That is to say, the libertarians are the bad guys, or, they're the stupid guys.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#95

Post by zdhgbdthdtv »

mongol wrote: post #35
eddtries wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, and one is the principles of a large car company from another country while the other is the social underpinnings of the countries entire labour market going back a century

That is exaggregated. This is IF Metall vs Tesla, not Sweden vs Tesla.

Swede here. You are absolutely mistaken.

This is a huge deal in whole of Scandinavia. Today Finland unions joined in. The other day both Norway and Danish unions joined in. Before that, many other Swedish unions joined in.

This is Tesla versus the Scandinavian model rather.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#96

Post by gerikson »

mongol wrote: post #79
eddtries wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be true if there were not repercussions for the wider Swedish model, but since there are repercussions of rolling over it is Sweden vs Tesla

You can be certain that there are plenty of Swedes that see it differently, they are just less vocal

Tesla is a good opponent. Musk is generally despised. Electric vehicles are seen as fancy-pants toys for eco-freaks. So the usual people who come to the defense of big companies don't really feel the need to break a lance for Tesla.

This is specifically the case with the Sweden Democrats. A big motivator for them is a) bashing greens, and b) being a better alternative for the working class than the Social Democrats. Siding with a foreign billionaire over "salt-of-the-earth" workers is not a winning move.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#97

Post by zdhgbdthdtv »

mongol wrote: post #44
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Striking is a constitutionally protected right in Sweden. The belief of PostNord is that the right of their employees to strike weighs higher than PostNord's obligation to deliver mail.

Not that simple. RF states striking as a protected right for an association of employees. It is not an individually protected right. "Stridsåtgärder på arbetsmarknaden [K2]14 § En förening av arbetstagare samt arbetsgivare och en förening av arbetsgivare har rätt att vidta stridsåtgärder på arbetsmarknaden, om inte annat följer av lag eller avtal. "

> Not that simple.

It is. Postnord even sent a press release stating the same:

> "PostNord's position in a conflict that we are basically outside of, has been that the right to strike is constitutionally protected and therefore applies over the distribution obligation in the Postal Act," the company writes in a press release. [1]

1: https://www.dn.se/ekonomi/postnord-slar-tillbaka-mot-tesla-i...

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#98

Post by seanmcdirmid »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #54
ysofunny wrote: post #36

does this mean sweeden is going to import chinese EVs??

Well, as it happens Polestar is doing well as a JV between Volvo and Geely. HQ is in Sweden, cars are produced in China. I see a few around me here in the UK now.

Some of the EVs are produced in the states now (South Carolina?). I'm not sure if any of the EVs are actually produced in Sweden, at least I can't find anything on the internet.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#99

Post by mytailorisrich »

VoxPelli wrote: post #82
mytailorisrich wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point the famed Swedish model shows its limits, IMHO. > "It's about the Swedish collective agreement model, and there is a consensus on it, both politically and between the parties in the labour market, Seko's president Gabriella Lavecchia told Reuters by email. And yet this is not a legal obligation, as far as I understand, and Tesla is acting lawfully. So the model seems to be that there are unwritten rules…

The point of the Swedish model is to avoid micro management from the state and instead of mandating work regulations through law businesses and unions can negotiate sector specific agreements that suits the very people and companies that it affects. Businesses and unions are better at knowing the needs of companies and people than what any government is. Not everything has to be achieved through laws. In Sweden we ge…

It's not micro management, it's a major point. Again, it looks like the consensus is that Tesla must accept a collective agreement (content to be left to the parties to negotiate). So why is that not mandated? IMHO, you can't be outraged that Tesla is refusing, or at least trying not to have one, when the law effectively says that they don't have to.

The level of reactions against Tesla does not make the system look 'nicer' than others: Maybe effective but actually quite brutal.

Re: Swedish court rules against Tesla in dispute with postal service over deliveries

#100

Post by bryanlarsen »

There are two lawsuits.

1. to force the government to allow Tesla to pick up license plates directly from them rather than using PostNord.

2. to force PostNord to deliver license plates.

Preliminary rulings are for Tesla on #1 and against Tesla on #2. That seems right to me.

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