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Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

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Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#351

Post by ClumsyPilot »

eggy wrote: post #344
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> let the people decide whether want to buy a Tesla and support Elon. Okay, let's let the people decide whether they want to buy heroin and support violent cartels. Let's take the same approach to slavery. Or fire safety of buildings. In fact, can you name 1 occasion in history when a consumer boycott stopped any kind of bad corporate behaviour - it does not even stop child slavery.

Wow, from an anti- to pro-union discussion and allowing people to purchase products that are currently and legally on the market for purchase in their country, and let a mob of workers come in between that contract, to heroin and violent cartels, slavery, and fire safety. Do you agree with the legal sale of alcohol then? Over 80% of violent crimes involve it. Prohibition didn't work, did it? Personally, I don't drink…

> let a mob of workers come in between that contract

Without the 'mob of workers' you would enjoy the same working conditions as currently they have in factories in China, for children.

We literally used to send children to die in the coalmines untill the 'mob of workers' stopped it.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#352

Post by AlgorithmicTime »

SigmundurM wrote: post #341
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you do not understand the basic fact that the people peeing in bottles are not working there against their will. As bad as it may be or sound, people choose to voluntarily work there. But sure, go fight your fight with the megalomaniac...

Capitalism is voluntary. Get bread, or get dead...

[dead]

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#353

Post by AlgorithmicTime »

shzhdbi09gv8ioi wrote: post #136
kristofferR wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nothing, whole genders have striked before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Icelandic_women%27s_strik...

In Sweden in 1979, a number of people called in sick for "being gay", to protest that homosexuality was still classified as a disease. After that, an activist occupation of the National Board of Health and Welfare's headquarters began. Within a few months, Sweden became one of the first countries in the world to declassify homosexuality as a disease. Elmo need to start paying attention.

[dead]

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#354

Post by avgcorrection »

waihtis wrote: post #347
avgcorrection wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So first you sarcastically deride worker-governed companies as being a reinvention of entreneurship (capitalist). Then you deride it as being like “Venezuela” (socialist bogeyman). I can’t make heads or tails of this.

No, I'm choosing not to embrace some random subcategory of entrepreneurism you're trying hamfistedly promote. I have no problem with a group of people coming together to form a company, on the contrary it needs to be promoted and celebrated much more as an idea, but only if it lives and dies by market forces.

You’re the one who picked the goddamn comparison. Then I said that the comparison isn’t valid since it’s worker-governed and owned. And now you complain that I’m choosing a particular subcategory against your will... for the thing that I said wasn’t a valid comparison to begin with!

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#355

Post by Unfrozen0688 »

ionyun wrote: post #208
stiray wrote: post #127

I think that whole thing is just a huge misunderstanding of elmu thinking that whole world works like USA. And even in USA, union members in average earn 18% more than others. On the other side, strike and unionizing is one of basic workers rights here and you just don't fight unions in EU. As you will be losing more money than if you get to an agreement with them. When elmu started his crusade against unions, I was…

I'm very much for the Nordic model and hope the unions prevail. Still I think it is yet to be seen whether it is Tesla making the mistake of thinking the whole world works like the US or if it is Sweden not understanding that it now works similarly to the US. There have been a lot of "having your cake and eating it too" going on in Sweden in the last few decades. It will be a stupid and costly exercise but as things…

>There have been a lot of "having your cake and eating it too" going on in Sweden in the last few decades

What do you mean?

>The current Swedish government just signed an agreement to be able to station US troops under US jurisdiction at Swedish military bases. You think they are going to side with the unions?

They don't have a say in the matter.

Companies, Unions, Workplaces and Courts are separate from government.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#356

Post by mgiannopoulos »

Dah00n wrote: post #318
mgiannopoulos wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I find interesting in this whole situation is that there are huge Swedish companies like Spotify (which I believe are run/founded by Swedes) that do not have a union agreement [0]. Yet somehow Musk is the evil American capitalist that does not respect local customs :) 0: https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/sweden-s...

Even though Spotify does have some metal in their catalogue, I don't see how a metalworkers union could strike against Spotify. Instead of some anti-US sentiment that you not-so-hidden point at, the real answer is different unions with different cultures and bargaining power.

I guess a /s was missing from your the first part of your comment. Still, the sentiment I sense is mostly anti-Musk/anti-billionaires. It’s fine to talk about differences in cultures but when you have Swedish companies founded by Swedes (and how are now also billionaires) doing the same thing as Tesla, the narrative kind of brakes down imho. How did Spotify get away not having a union for over 15 years?

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#357

Post by waihtis »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #349
waihtis wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of openly communistic commenters on HN is both hilarious and concerning at the same time.

> openly communistic I don't think worker-owned companies are communist. Until recently, investment banks and law firms were predominantly structured as partnerships.

Perhaps, but the ideals of the above commenters certainly do not come from investment banks

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#358

Post by waihtis »

avgcorrection wrote: post #354
waihtis wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm choosing not to embrace some random subcategory of entrepreneurism you're trying hamfistedly promote. I have no problem with a group of people coming together to form a company, on the contrary it needs to be promoted and celebrated much more as an idea, but only if it lives and dies by market forces.

You’re the one who picked the goddamn comparison. Then I said that the comparison isn’t valid since it’s worker-governed and owned. And now you complain that I’m choosing a particular subcategory against your will... for the thing that I said wasn’t a valid comparison to begin with!

I can't help but to think you don't understand even the very basic premises of forming a private company.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#359

Post by defrost »

waihtis wrote: post #358
avgcorrection wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re the one who picked the goddamn comparison. Then I said that the comparison isn’t valid since it’s worker-governed and owned. And now you complain that I’m choosing a particular subcategory against your will... for the thing that I said wasn’t a valid comparison to begin with!

I can't help but to think you don't understand even the very basic premises of forming a private company.

Private companies aren't personal fiefdoms when they employ members of the general public in countries that support collective bargaining.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#360

Post by avgcorrection »

waihtis wrote: post #358
avgcorrection wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re the one who picked the goddamn comparison. Then I said that the comparison isn’t valid since it’s worker-governed and owned. And now you complain that I’m choosing a particular subcategory against your will... for the thing that I said wasn’t a valid comparison to begin with!

I can't help but to think you don't understand even the very basic premises of forming a private company.

Deflection and sarcasm is all you have to offer.
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