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Spotify CFO cashes in £7.2M in shares after value surges on news of job cuts

theguardian.com

161–170 of 203 posts

Re: Spotify CFO cashes in £7.2M in shares after value surges on news of job cuts

#161
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our society is inches away from extreme violence at all times and the relative peace and legitimacy of that society depends on securing broad consensus and consent of the governed and a reasonable distribution of resources. He can be killed and eaten for his protein content when someone feels like it too.

Well, as a member of society, my vote goes to the market over, you know, cannibalism. Pretty sure that vote isn’t hanging in the balance of the Spotify CFO.

Cannibalism isn’t inconsistent with a free market any more than a steakhouse is

That’s the problem with free markets. It’s just a description of how people answer resource allocation questions.

We still have to agree on and enforce our value system.

Re: Spotify CFO cashes in £7.2M in shares after value surges on news of job cuts

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really funny to see hackers fall in line to work at big companies. In the 90s all the true hackers hated large established companies and would show them the finger and work for scrappy upstarts. And now all the kids are bending over backwards to work for these large corporations doing hours of leetcode. What a shame.

The hackers of the 90s and 00s are a different breed than those today. Today, many go through a boot camp and enjoy a cozy job. Might as well be an accountant or in HR. The hackers of the early days were tinkerers. Odd ones out, often. They are still out there, but absolutely not taking the traditional path.

I think another problem today is that startups do not truly differentiate. They try to be a mini Google. Startups in the 90s were much more brash. Look at Apple's ads against IBM for example. Everything has become far more tame these days. So why join a mini Google when you can join the real Google instead.

Re: Spotify CFO cashes in £7.2M in shares after value surges on news of job cuts

#163
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of weird to see big corporations want to attract talent but then act surprised or salty when people don't like being treated like a line item in a budget. It's nothing personal. I'm sure your company is great and you truly believe in your mission beyond just providing value to shareholders but humans like stability and to be treated like people. You might be a Fortune 500 but you're not god just a job. If y…

Unfortunately people will still want to work there and grind LC and work at other companies as stepping stones to get in.

Yeah, but not for long though- see turnover rates.

Re: Spotify CFO cashes in £7.2M in shares after value surges on news of job cuts

#164
post #98
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you think these things aren’t fair or suck, then you should try to move out of the leet coder path and get on the capital owner or business operator side. You could also try to improve society. People don’t have to just take it, they can fight back. All power comes from the consent of the masses, none of these guys have the physical power to compel any of us to do anything at all, including let them live. Look w…

Why don’t you try to change society then? Honest question why do people always want someone else to do it? Go start a business with your friends who think same way. See if you can build a business that can take care of its employees and do something good. You could change your own life and that of your colleagues. Never go public, and you don’t have any pressure to grow at all costs. Don’t take on debt. Oh right. It’…

It does not take a week of effort to do LC.

Re: Spotify CFO cashes in £7.2M in shares after value surges on news of job cuts

#165
post #60
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it insider trading? He sold the stock after the material became public knowledge. He didn't have any insider information

He always has insider information when he's the CFO, don't you think?

And if that information that is unknown drives the stock price down, _then_ he is insider trading

Re: Spotify CFO cashes in £7.2M in shares after value surges on news of job cuts

#166
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it insider trading? He sold the stock after the material became public knowledge. He didn't have any insider information

But he has the power to create the material...

So? That doesn't make this insider trading

Re: Spotify CFO cashes in £7.2M in shares after value surges on news of job cuts

#167
post #136
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it insider trading? He sold the stock after the material became public knowledge. He didn't have any insider information

>He sold the stock after the material became public knowledge. Are there rules about how long you need to wait after the news goes public to sell? Otherwise, it still seems kind of unfair because you could sell 100 milliseconds later before the market can react.

You put up your sell order in 100 milliseconds. The market then reacts as long as it takes to react. Stocks don't instantly settle

Re: Spotify CFO cashes in £7.2M in shares after value surges on news of job cuts

#168
post #116
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But this means that we're ignoring the harm that was done to the people that lost their income and the disruptions that the rest of the org will experience. As opposed to the 'benefit' that was done while they were granted income? I'm unsure what your point is. Is a business never supposed to 'harm' its employees? They're never allowed to fire people? What is the logical conclusion of your statement? A business oug…

The argument that businesses should never 'harm' their employees by laying them off is a straw man. No one is suggesting that companies be legally bound to keep all employees indefinitely. However, there is a vast difference between making strategic adjustments and engaging in practices that unduly harm employees for the sake of short-term financial gains. Moreover, the U.S. government provides ample protections for…

> The argument that businesses should never 'harm' their employees by laying them off is a straw man. No one is suggesting that companies be legally bound to keep all employees indefinitely.

I believe it was implied in the comment I replied to. The focus on 'harm' would imply that they believe any harm should be minimized if not eliminated outright.

> However, there is a vast difference between making strategic adjustments and engaging in practices that unduly harm employees for the sake of short-term financial gains.

What evidence do you have to make this claim in the context of Spotify? Are you suggesting that because the CFO sold his stock, therefore the layoffs only occurred specifically with short-term financial gains in mind?

> bankruptcy (a process I don't think you understand based on your comment)

We both know what I'm talking about, details of exactly how bankruptcy affects employees, creditors, and shareholders are unimportant. I'll stop reading your comment here, given you wanted to use the old "you're doing a straw man" and then pull this out.

Re: Spotify CFO cashes in £7.2M in shares after value surges on news of job cuts

#169
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But this means that we're ignoring the harm that was done to the people that lost their income and the disruptions that the rest of the org will experience. As opposed to the 'benefit' that was done while they were granted income? I'm unsure what your point is. Is a business never supposed to 'harm' its employees? They're never allowed to fire people? What is the logical conclusion of your statement? A business oug…

The OC's perspective is that one is entitled to income and being laid off is a regression. In reality, being laid off is a return to stasis. They consume more than they can individually produce and feel an entitlement to have this lifestyle perpetually maintained.

The OC's perspective (that's me) is that there's a massive power asymmetry between the employed and employer. An employee can (typically) only work for one company at a time whereas an employer typically has many employees. The cost for an employee being terminated represents an immediate financial hazard for the employee; when an employee quits then the employer can absorb that shock more easily by distributing outstanding work between remaining employees.

When an employee quits for a new job, that's a speed bump for the employer; when the employer lays someone off, that's life changing for the employee. Employees have many fewer protections than do corporations so layoffs should be done with caution and the cost of layoffs should absolutely be shared with leadership.

> In reality, being laid off is a return to stasis.

Not even close, my dude. Being laid off starts a timer for when that person's finances run out. If that person is, let's say, badly burned out from a months-long crunch period then good luck getting a job. Being laid off is deeply disruptive; if you don't believe me then try it out for yourself sometime.

And going back to the original discussion of the CEO getting a payout as a result of layoffs, that represents leadership financially benefiting at the expensive of the laid off employees. Layoffs indicate a failure of leadership to grow and plan accordingly and leadership should be sharing in the pain rather than cashing in.

Productive, healthy societies survive and thrive when members of that society can afford to take risks can tolerate shocks, and aren't destroyed when they're unable to work. Systems like social security allow elderly people to retire which frees up other productive workers to have careers rather than be caretakers. Systems like unemployment benefits give people time to reorient after a layoff and search for a career where they can be more productive rather than having to reach for the first job that they can find.

These systems are paid for by redistributing income, either temporally with things like employment taxes, or along the income spectrum via progressive taxes. The case of a CEO financially benefiting from layoffs is the exact opposite of this pattern - extracting stock gains from the financial deprivation of employees.

I'm not arguing that we should redistribute all income and it shouldn't be possible to get rich, but I am arguing that we should, shall we say, have a little fucking empathy for people that have been disadvantaged and attempt to support them rather than celebrating the active progression of income inequality.

Edit: typo fixes and a minor clarification.

Re: Spotify CFO cashes in £7.2M in shares after value surges on news of job cuts

#170
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you agree with the narrative of shareholder primacy and are looking at short term outcomes then sure, nothing is wrong here. But this means that we're ignoring the harm that was done to the people that lost their income and the disruptions that the rest of the org will experience. Layoffs can be devastating to the people that were terminated; a job loss is one of the higher stress events one can experience. If you…

> If you agree with the narrative of shareholder primacy I've really begun to notice that there is a large group of people who see this not as a narrative but as objective and external reality. I see it often on this topic, that capitalism (definitional arguments noted) is not just inherently good - it is in fact inherent. However it seems to increasingly apply to many people's perspectives on social and societal con…

I agree that many people perceive this as an absolute truth, and I have to reluctantly acknowledge Milton Friedman's success in completely changing the narrative around corporate responsibilities. I don't think that the adoption of this narrative is due to the Internet though; the original Supreme Court decision of Dodge v. Ford legally enshrined it and the narrative has been actively taught for a long time. I know that I took it at face value for a long time as a result of my education along with the overwhelming share of my peers so I'd say this has been pushed by a broad segment of society.

At present we do rely on shareholders in different parts of society to fund new ventures -- most of us are here on HN because we worked at a VC-funded startup. Shareholders should get paid out. But workers have a stake in a company, the community has a stake in a company, and society at large has some small stake in a company. We shouldn't select shareholders as the main voting party in the operations of a company when the impacts of company operations are so much wider.

For good examples of companies whose impact was much larger than the shareholders, see also: DuPont/Chemours with PFAS, the manufacturers of CFCs, oil companies, etc.

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