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Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

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Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#241

Post by anonyfox »

diego_sandoval wrote: post #210
eddtries wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will have to give in or close shop. Simply two options available. Musk is pretty irrational when it comes to backing down so I suspect the latter. I was just about to buy a new Tesla when this kicked off and don’t fancy the risk of having a car I can’t service, so shopped around and discovered other EVs can be just as good with better build quality nowadays! So that’s a nice outcome for me.

> Musk is pretty irrational when it comes to backing down What from the outside looks "irrational", from the inside may look like "not compromising on principles". Money is not the main variable that Musk is trying to maximize at this point.

> "not compromising on principles"

which almost always is immature behavior, whereas adults think solution-oriented, which sometimes is called "Realpolitik" (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik).

Doesn't get better in this particular case where musk is opposing to officially agree to common worker protection rules, wages, ... he already follows. Just another case of "dumb behavior".

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#242

Post by manuelabeledo »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #103
eckesicle wrote: post #25

> Postal workers even decided not to deliver mail to the electric automaker, including license plates – an action that Musk called "insane". The local court has since put a stop to that action. This is no longer true. A higher court overturned that decision and the license plates are again blocked from reaching Tesla.

Allowing the government owned post office to pick and choose who gets mail just seems like a step too far. But even then the court wasn't forcing them to deliver mail, just allowing that mail to be picked up. And now that's blocked? I just don't understand how one entity can have this much power, in this case they essentially are the government they could demand whatever the hell they wanted. Your choice is to leave…

> Allowing the government owned post office to pick and choose who gets mail just seems like a step too far.

The government isn't doing this, workers are.

Wouldn't it be more problematic if the government stepped in and forced the hand against their workers, and in favour of a private company like Tesla?

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#243

Post by AlgorithmicTime »

othorns wrote: post #154
carlosjobim wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just don't understand how one entity can have this much power, in this case they essentially are the government In Sweden the unions own the government. Nordic countries can not be compared to modern republics such as the USA. There is little separation of powers.

The unions don't own the goverment. Or do you also belive that the nordics is full of socialists? And I'd much rather be a modern nordic country as compared to the USA where democracy is constantly threatened and bribing politicians is perfectly legal as long as you call it lobbying, the name a few modern examples

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Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#244

Post by eddtries »

Jochim wrote: post #230
eddtries wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hell yeah! Let's get those lazy workers on the lines working harder. Innovation and growth at all costs. Workers are cogs and if they're not behaving correctly they should be fixed or replaced. I, personally, am happy with a 21% illiteracy rate in America - workers don't need to be literate to make my flying cars faster. Sweden might rank top for happiness and health but that's not going to make my bank numbers get h…

> Sweden might rank top for happiness and health but that's not going to make my bank numbers get higher for my annual two week holiday. The US seems to expect service workers to pretend to be happy in the hopes of receiving enough money to get by. Whereas the Nordics seem to take the approach of "let's make sure your service worker is happy" first and foremost. The Nordic model seems more stable and less stressful f…

I've lived and worked in the UK, the Bay Area, and Stockholm. Sweden does not pay as well but the employee/union perks & lifestyle is night and day compared to the other two. I definitely miss Bay Area salaries but I'm getting more holiday, I get paid extra for going on holiday, I get a years paternity leave & IVF bonuses, I get free healthcare (and most employers offer free private healthcare), I get a company car for very cheap, rent/properties are cheap and actually pretty large, the cities are built around nature, poverty is low, crime is low, people are happy...

I prefer the Nordic model so far!

Edit: I forgot the best one - unemployment insurance. If I get laid off I get my salary covered at 80% for 6 - 12 months (depends on the policy). This is through the union. Such a nice relief with all the layoffs happening in tech nowadays.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#245

Post by robertlagrant »

distances wrote: post #161
robertlagrant wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unionization shouldn't be there to disrupt another company. It should be there so you can bargain against your employer. This seems really inappropriate.

On the contrary, it's a crucial part of collective bargaining. You have to be large enough to bargain effectively. Companies in the Nordics aren't alone either, they have employers' organizations where a whole sector of employers band together to bargain with the unions. These discussions then produce collective agreements that bind the whole sector for a given timespan. It might sound alien to some, but it has guara…

I'm not saying they shouldn't go on strike. I'm saying that they aren't on strike, as they're still working. Refusing to service one customer isn't striking.

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#246

Post by thecopy »

robertlagrant wrote: post #159
actionfromafar wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't see what so bad about the union action here. Would honestly love to understand what you don't like about this.

They've laid it out pretty well. A strike is downing tools and not showing up to work. Not doing your work, but neglecting certain customers.

…according to you:) This is a so called sympathy strike: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidarity_action

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#247

Post by 6565657 »

wharvle wrote: post #131
543354544 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what you actually meant with this nonsense

“Free” workers under capitalism used to often not be free to leave the job. As in they’d be locked in, or some big dudes would encourage them to stay, or they’d be in some remote area and paid largely in scrip, and practically unable to quit, or a despotic local “big man” major employer would ensure they’d have to leave town if they upset him, which could include things like “wasn’t back in the bunk house before curf…

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Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#248

Post by henry2023 »

Unions are simply like GPOs[^1] but with the most valuable asset in any organization. Their workers. It baffles me to read anti-union comments from fellow tech-workers.

It's so clear that unions give back a tiny bit of negotiation power into your own hands and yet people side with the exec whose only purpose is to extract as much value from the organization as possible.

You are supporting the "competitive labor wage based on your location" and the "we're a perfectly functioning organization but we'll layoff 10% of the staff because it looks good to stakeholders".

Why is that?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_purchasing_organization

Re: Swedish Tesla strike goes international as Norwegian and Danish unions join in

#249

Post by JumpCrisscross »

robertlagrant wrote: post #237
bayindirh wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are increasing the pressure on a company which is not treating their workers well and fairly. These workers are friends, wives, husbands, relatives… It’s more than justified.

You're missing the point. I'm not debating the validity of whether people should leave Tesla and go work somewhere else. I'm saying that it's not a strike if you're just refusing service to a customer. A strike - whether because of your circumstances or another's - is you downing tools and stopping working.

> it's not a strike if you're just refusing service to a customer...a strike...is you downing tools and stopping working

This hasn't been what a strike has meant in Scandinavia for a century.

I'm American. I broadly think unions are ineffective and corrupt. But it's ridiculous to claim this strike is unprecedented. Even the pattern of an American company being flummoxed by it is deeply precedented.

If you want to do business in the Nordic countries, you respect the collective-bargaining process. That doesn't capitulation. It doesn't even mean you must enter into one. But you can't blow it off, and at that so dismissively.

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