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An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

pythonafrica.blogspot.com

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Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#341

Post by wyldfire »

leadingthenet wrote: post #253
wyldfire wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don’t feel safe, don’t go sure, but then shouldn't organizations like PSF take that into account when considering funding? by sponsoring the event they're endorsing it. so you could also see how it's not that great to endorse an event where you should warn attendees "hey don't gay it up bro they will beat you down here. just hide your shameful activity until you get back home."

Everything does not need to get politicised. A programming conference is one such example.

Replace sexuality or gender with age, race, or sex and replay the argument.

"Don't be a woman or if you are a woman just mask that and subject yourself to men while in the country that discriminates against women. Please, women, don't make this a political thing. When in Rome..."

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#342

Post by bmicraft »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #286
leadingthenet wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That looks like the rule of law working as expected to me?

You do realize that 20 years ago it was wrong to be gay in various US states, right? And I'm saying this with the consideration that most of the world sees the US as the most advanced country on the planet.

> most of the world sees the US as the most advanced country on the planet.

With all due respect, mostly the US sees the US as the most advanced country

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#343

Post by pierat »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #289
pierat wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You know how you change opinions in those places? By interacting with them. Exporting your culture, like conferences and such. Shunning does nothing to accomplish the goal of a more open society. Engagement moves the needle.

Its not my job to fix another peoples' terrible government or laws. And in most cases, the terrible laws/govt is representative of the peoples' views.

(Note, the USA has done the type of foreign intervention that time and again, to terrible effect. Me? I'll just stay the fuck away from countries that want to execute me for being.)

Tanzania is exactly that case, with a 2007 Pew survey finding that 95% +-4% that "believed that homosexuality is a way of life that society should not (be) accept(ed)".

Let them fix their own problems first to a point that *being* isn't criminalized with lifetime prison or execution.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#344

Post by jzb »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #332
bombcar wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You ask for money far in advance so you can get a no with a reasonable timeframe to switch to something else. Yes is easy, what's you're no plan?

6 months is way in advance. PSF policy is to ask 4-6 weeks before the event (Timeframe: We require that applications be submitted 6 weeks before the event/project start date - this gives us enough time to thoroughly review, ask questions, and have enough time to send you the funds.), so 6 months is more than enough time. And we're missing the issue: the organizers were asking for $9k, which by all means should have b…

The funding FAQ gives general guidance of $2500 at the high end and still discusses virtual events. I suspect some of the problem is the process is for very low budget meetups, and virtual things, not six-day real world events.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#345

Post by [deleted] »

pierat wrote: post #343
hackinthebochs wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know how you change opinions in those places? By interacting with them. Exporting your culture, like conferences and such. Shunning does nothing to accomplish the goal of a more open society. Engagement moves the needle.

Its not my job to fix another peoples' terrible government or laws. And in most cases, the terrible laws/govt is representative of the peoples' views. (Note, the USA has done the type of foreign intervention that time and again, to terrible effect. Me? I'll just stay the fuck away from countries that want to execute me for being.) Tanzania is exactly that case, with a 2007 Pew survey finding that 95% +-4% that "belie…

[deleted]

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#346

Post by jasomill »

grotorea wrote: post #202
niam wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vibes on the ground are not fact. Actionable law is. I agree with the people saying that this is in-effect a wholesale rejection of conferences in Africa, and that we should be mindful of that and work on a compromise. But how is it sensible to expect organizations to act on so-called "facts on the ground"? If those facts haven't already been leveraged to meaningfully affect policy, then there's a burdening question…

> Vibes on the ground are not fact. Actionable law is. I really think this is a view that only makes sense in stable countries with strong rule of law, which I don't think is the case for most of the world. And even in the First World. Are Americans in states that legalized marijuana afraid of a random cop arresting them due to it being federally illegal? Is the average European concerned of being arrested for movie…

In my experience in one of the few blue enclaves in an overwhelmingly red US state[1], selectively enforced laws are frequently used by local law enforcement as an instrument of discrimination against "undesirables".

As a straight, white, young adult male, I noticed a strong correlation between the frequency of "pretextual" traffic stops in neighboring counties and the then-current length of my hair.

Racial minorities have it much worse:

Before Brainard took office, employees of then Carmel[, Indiana]-based One Call, many of whom were minorities living outside of Carmel and working late into the night, complained of being pulled over by Carmel police.

The city’s solution, which [Carmel mayor] Brainard called “terrible,” was to give employees car tags so police knew they belonged there, implying that if you were Black and didn't work there, the assumption might be that you didn't belong there. There was, however, no systemic change within the police department to stop ticketing Black people passing through." [2]

As for marijuana possession,

In Indiana, all but 13 counties are above the national average for racial disparities [in marijuana arrests]. And while Marion County’s rate of disparity is below the national average, there seems to be an alarming trend for surrounding counties to have disproportionately high arrests of Black community members. For example, Hancock, Hamilton, Shelby and Boone counties, all donut counties, have a racial disparities rate of greater than 10x. [3]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana%27s_7th_congressional_...

[2] https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/hamilton-county/ca...

[3] https://www.aclu-in.org/en/news/racial-disparities-indiana-m...

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#350

Post by hackinthebochs »

pierat wrote: post #343
hackinthebochs wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know how you change opinions in those places? By interacting with them. Exporting your culture, like conferences and such. Shunning does nothing to accomplish the goal of a more open society. Engagement moves the needle.

Its not my job to fix another peoples' terrible government or laws. And in most cases, the terrible laws/govt is representative of the peoples' views. (Note, the USA has done the type of foreign intervention that time and again, to terrible effect. Me? I'll just stay the fuck away from countries that want to execute me for being.) Tanzania is exactly that case, with a 2007 Pew survey finding that 95% +-4% that "belie…

Obviously you have no obligation to fix other people or countries. I wouldn't set foot in any of these countries either. The point is that western organizations shunning these countries is counter-productive. You seemed to disagree upthread that conferences organizers should support conferences in such regions despite their backwards laws. But this only harms the spread of modern ideals in these parts of the world. The only way they change is with more contact with the west, not less.
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