UnifiedPush[0] seems like a great alternative to notifications passing through Apple/Google's hands, and I wish it was implemented in more apps.
Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications
331–340 of 649 posts
Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications
#332This, to me, is the more disturbing part of the article: > In this case, the federal government prohibited us from sharing any information," the company said in a statement. "Now that this method has become public we are updating our transparency reporting to detail these kinds of requests. What is the point of transparency reports if they don't include major vectors of government surveillance? IMO such gag orders sh…
This is why warrant canaries can be useful in privacy policies, at least for smaller/startup companies. The apple/google/microsoft/amazon/metas of the world would have had to remove the canary long ago, though.
No competent startup or small business would take on such a legal risk. And anyway, a sure conclusion can already be reached on the basis of reasoning about the complete and total lack of warrant canaries anywhere.
Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications
#333Metadata in this case apparently means Apple and Google are helping find “this real user connected to that real user at this time”. So governments may or may not be able to decrypt a push message payload, or data delivered because of that payload.
An interesting point in Glenn Greenwald’s book is that metadata is often more informative than the “real” data. Consider: 1. A phone call in which Mrs. Smith talks to a receptionist to set an appointment with a doctor for 9:30 next Wednesday. Vs. 2. Knowing that Mrs. Smith called an abortion clinic. #2 seems like a bigger violation of privacy. Metadata is the real data.
This is tangential to a comment I read (probably on HN) perhaps a decade ago, when scandals were being reported that laptop webcams could (surprise!) be activated remotely and people/kids being spied on (I think the article was a school-issued laptop disciplining a child from evidence gathered by the webcam at the child's home).
Someone pointed out that, while being watched is creepy, the real damning information on people actually comes from being listened to.
Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications
#334Earlier quoted context omitted.
how will actual data not be more informative? you can easily infer what the appointment was because the phone call will mention the name of the doctor or office and you can look that up plus all the details they discuss you'd still have to look up who the doctor they called is from the metadata; it's still info but absolutely not more informative than the real data so this line of thought makes no sense, and glenn gr…
>you can easily infer what the appointment was because the phone call will mention the name of the doctor or office and you can look that up plus all the details they discuss You're assuming these things are mentioned. "Hi, I'd like to book/confirm an appointment with Dr. Jones." doesn't leak information about "abortion". Yes, these things obviously depend on what information is transmitted. The point, however, is th…
> You're assuming these things are mentioned. "Hi, I'd like to book/confirm an appointment with Dr. Jones." doesn't leak information about "abortion".
yes it does.. just look up who dr jones is; is the metadata going to say "this lady is getting an abortion" ?
Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications
#335It's crazy to me that so much effort is being expended pretending that companies and the government are doing anything in the name of privacy, when we have all the proof by Assange and Snowden that they're doing realtime surveillance of ALL communications, 24x7 -- no matter what any laws say -- and we don't even talk about it any more. What's the point of any of this? All we can do is assume that our every position,…
I think where we go wrong is to allow the conversation to revolve around what evil corporations are doing with our information, rather than what the evil government is doing with it. I believe the risk to our freedom is much greater from the latter. Of course governments can extract the information from corporations that have it, but let's keep the spotlight on the government itself, and use THAT as a reason to give…
“Better-targeted advertisements” is not the most nefarious way this information is used. That’s just one of the selling points to entice advertisers. It’s also been used extensively to determine content that you will find the most engaging, regardless of whether it’s to your benefit or not, so that ad-driven marketplaces may harvest and sell your attention.
If you have any contemporary examples of the way the government has used the same information, in a way that’s been more widely destructive, I would be curious to know more.
Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications
#336I'm probably naive, but what insights could a government gleam from Push Notifications?
And why aren't push notifications E2EE?
Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications
#337It's crazy to me that so much effort is being expended pretending that companies and the government are doing anything in the name of privacy, when we have all the proof by Assange and Snowden that they're doing realtime surveillance of ALL communications, 24x7 -- no matter what any laws say -- and we don't even talk about it any more. What's the point of any of this? All we can do is assume that our every position,…
I don't think many people actually care much about privacy. There are a few, and they're loud. But look at what matters in politics -- both major political tribes in the US are only interested in privacy and protection from the government as it relates to their own interest, but they are perfectly happy to use that power against their perceived opponents.
Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications
#338Ron Ryden has been barking up this tree for a long time: https://www.wyden.senate.gov/issues/secret-law https://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-colle... https://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-intro... https://www.wyden.senate.gov/priorities/gps-act https://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-relea...
Nine times out of ten, when there's a news piece about a senator advocating for privacy and constitutional rights with regards to tech, it's senator Wyden. He's on the senate intelligence committee and has a decent track record of getting shit done with bipartisan support, so he's not just virtue signaling for votes either (not to mention that he's basically unbeatable in state election with all the support he has in Oregon). He's 74 years old, I do hope someone will step up and carry the torch when he retires. It's a losing battle but it's still important that we have someone who is competent and well respected to fight it for us.
Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications
#339> " "In this case, the federal government prohibited us from sharing any information," the company said in a statement. "Now that this method has become public we are updating our transparency reporting to detail these kinds of requests." " When they were building the CSAM detector: "what if the government asks you to extend the detection to include other media such as political meme images?" "we would refuse".
Being prohibited from disclosure does not in any way refute their promise to refuse. It would make it hard to prove one way or the other, but that is not the same problem.
Re: Governments spying on Apple, Google users through push notifications
#340Earlier quoted context omitted.
>you can easily infer what the appointment was because the phone call will mention the name of the doctor or office and you can look that up plus all the details they discuss You're assuming these things are mentioned. "Hi, I'd like to book/confirm an appointment with Dr. Jones." doesn't leak information about "abortion". Yes, these things obviously depend on what information is transmitted. The point, however, is th…
> You're assuming these things are mentioned. "Hi, I'd like to book/confirm an appointment with Dr. Jones." doesn't leak information about "abortion". yes it does.. just look up who dr jones is; is the metadata going to say "this lady is getting an abortion" ?
I think you're nit-picking and failing to address the broader point.
1. The conversation may or may not contain information pertaining to an abortion.
2. The metadata (namely: "it's an abortion clinic") inherently contains such information.
The point is that metadata is usually the more interesting data.